Monk Basics is up!

[Nemesis Destiny]

The only thing I got from this article, besides some flavour, is that the monk class as a whole needs revision.

 

[RangerWickett]

Nah, I think it needs much less revision than most 4e classes. I honestly love the class; I just think multiclassing is unnecessarily strict (it keeps you from playing with G.I. Joes and LEGOs at the same time).

The only real change I'd like to see to the monk is to let them use Dexterity for Melee Basic Attacks. Though I wouldn't mind an 'Essentials' monk that had a dozen different stances it could switch between (you'd start with 2 and learn more by level), giving you movement modes and modifying your MBAs.

 

[Nemesis Destiny]

Don't get me wrong - I like the class too - but not having the unarmed strike use Dex is a big oversight.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

The kama feat is also nice for rogues, since the sickle is a light blade.

The monk unarmed strike is a +3/1d8/off-hand weapon that can become +3/1d10/off-hand, so it is quite potent. I agree that Piercing Palm should have some other minor benefit when you deliver a Sneak Attack with a monk unarmed strike, though.

The quarterstaff feat can be coupled with the staff-as-rogue-weapon option from the Staff Fighter article.

Internalize the Basic Kata does more than grant "Dex for basic attacks", it also allows for flurry of blows with opportunity attacks (it removes the "during your turn" restriction).

Yes, and you foolishly thought you'd get some actual positive opinions out of this crew eh? Nice to see that hope springs eternal. It might even happen some day!

Personally I thought it was pretty good. Monk IS a bit of an oddly implemented class and short of a total ground up rewrite there are going to be some weird corner cases and stuff that logically should 'just happen' that doesn't quite. Eh well, it is rather elegant in other respects. Probably a class that would be done quite differently in some ways if it were rewritten, but still cool. Frankly at this point I'd just rewrite it as a weapon using class and deep six the whole 'ki focus' thing, and then rely on Grandmaster Training and class features to make unarmed an equally good choice.

 

[mneme]

The unarmed strike feat isn't -quite- a feat tax, as it lets you flurry with OAs, which could be quite potent in some games. The rogue feat is totally a feat tax, though, and should include something nifty to make it less of one (it's basically only useful for rogues multiclassing or hybriding into monk, so should be something useful to someone with only rogue powers for most of a fight.

 

[Larrin]

Am I missing something: Slashing kama style seems to let you deal ongoing damage equal to your flurry damage (no end to the ongoing stated, i notice, i'll assume save ends or else, of course, its just silly good/broken). So you have an at will of dealing ongoing X damge once per flurry (which has reasonable limits), which is a significant upgrade. Or is it? Ongoing damage (save ends) always baffles me with whether or not its worth it. I've seen people take 30 damage from ongoing 5, and i've seen a free save negate ongoing 20 before it could do anything. Still, it seems this power might be a little too much for an at will effect.

 

[Kzach]

Nah, I think it needs much less revision than most 4e classes. I honestly love the class; I just think multiclassing is unnecessarily strict (it keeps you from playing with G.I. Joes and LEGOs at the same time).

The only real change I'd like to see to the monk is to let them use Dexterity for Melee Basic Attacks. Though I wouldn't mind an 'Essentials' monk that had a dozen different stances it could switch between (you'd start with 2 and learn more by level), giving you movement modes and modifying your MBAs.

You really must stop agreeing with me; it's becoming embarrassing.

I keep wanting to start a thread entitled, "Maybe 4.5e wouldn't be such a bad idea!" There's so many little things like monks needing UC to be Dex-based, scattered throughout the classes that I genuinely think a revision to the entire system, all in one big go instead of the constant drip-feed we're getting at the moment, would actually be the best thing for everyone.

That, and it'd make the boards buzz with nerd rage for at least another year!

 

[Vael]

I keep wanting to start a thread entitled, "Maybe 4.5e wouldn't be such a bad idea!" There's so many little things like monks needing UC to be Dex-based, scattered throughout the classes that I genuinely think a revision to the entire system, all in one big go instead of the constant drip-feed we're getting at the moment, would actually be the best thing for everyone.

That, and it'd make the boards buzz with nerd rage for at least another year!

Yeah, I have a strong desire to give 4e a good thorough spring cleaning (in autumn). Give the non-STR primary melee classes an automatic melee training without costing a feat, clear out some of the older and less useful feats, give magic items a good do-over, etc.

It's not, in my mind, enough for a new edition, but I think 4e needs a good clean up.

 

[MrMyth]

Am I missing something: Slashing kama style seems to let you deal ongoing damage equal to your flurry damage (no end to the ongoing stated, i notice, i'll assume save ends or else, of course, its just silly good/broken). So you have an at will of dealing ongoing X damge once per flurry (which has reasonable limits), which is a significant upgrade. Or is it? Ongoing damage (save ends) always baffles me with whether or not its worth it. I've seen people take 30 damage from ongoing 5, and i've seen a free save negate ongoing 20 before it could do anything. Still, it seems this power might be a little too much for an at will effect.

Against a typical foe, ongoing damage translates to about 1.8 times the base damage, I believe. So ongoing 5 damage will, on average, do about 9 damage to a foe. (I don't think it comes to exactly that, but from what I recall, its close enough to use it as a way to judge the effect of ongoing damage.)

So, looked at that way, ongoing damage often looks quite good - providing nearly double the base damage of what you are offering. Say your monk deals 5 damage with Flurry of Blows - this translates to +4 damage each round, against one target. That seems pretty respectable for a striker!

Of course, it isn't always that simple. You could be fighting Elite or Solo enemies, for whom that extra damage tapers off much more quickly. Against a Solo, you're only really looking at just over +1 damage, not +4!

And even against normal monsters, keep in mind that once you've afflicted it on an enemy, until he saves, you can't really use the feat against - except against other enemies. So if you have a couple foes, you might be able to trigger the benefit every round - but if you are focusing on one guy, the benefit isn't as much.

And you will often use it against an enemy who will then get killed off before saving, so he doesn't ever take the full effect of the ongoing damage. Or maybe he'll end up in a state where the next instance of the ongoing damage will kill him, but the party doesn't know that - so they throw an attack at him anyway, which ends up something of a waste.

You'll also occasionally get enemies who get bonus saves or can save at the start of their turn or the like... but that seems more the domain of PCs than monsters, typically.

All that said, I still think it is a nice feat. There are also some items and feats and such out there which can increase the ongoing damage you deal. But I don't think it is too gamebreaking, and doesn't require a bit of careful use to really reap the full benefits.

 

[Bold or Stupid]

You really must stop agreeing with me; it's becoming embarrassing.

I keep wanting to start a thread entitled, "Maybe 4.5e wouldn't be such a bad idea!" There's so many little things like monks needing UC to be Dex-based, scattered throughout the classes that I genuinely think a revision to the entire system, all in one big go instead of the constant drip-feed we're getting at the moment, would actually be the best thing for everyone.

That, and it'd make the boards buzz with nerd rage for at least another year!

I actually agree with this, I think we could get 4-5 years more out of 4e after a "spring clean" as the main books seem to be keeping up a good level of new ideas (infinite wizard variations aside) in them.