Monk Feedback

[Byronic]

I made this thread so that we could gather all the feedback for the monk in one place. Feedback designers can actually use instead of for example proclaiming our surprise that it's a psionic class.

I'll start off:

The At-Wills lack an upgrade for level 21. Usually at level 21 powers do extra damage to compensate for the growing HP scores of the enemies.

 

[Mort_Q]

Not surprised. Elated. I've always thought of Ki as a subset of Psi anyway. Wish I had time to read the whole thing now.

 

[James McMurray]

I haven't read the whole article, but I'm failing to see how they're considered a striker, at least compared to any of the strikers already out there. Their extra damage ability is once per turn, and only adds your wisdom modifier to the damage. At paragon level you can do it to two creatures, and at epic it's all around you.

That means at 1st level you're adding 3-4 damage to a strike, which is on par with any of the classes that add 1d6. At 11th you're adding 4-5, plus a little splash damage, which is nowhere near as good as 2d6. On top of that, their attacks deal only 1d8 damage, or 1d6 if they're an implement one.

The movement techniques of the Full Discipline powers are pretty nice, but they don't say "I'm a striker."

 

[FireLance]

The At-Wills lack an upgrade for level 21. Usually at level 21 powers do extra damage to compensate for the growing HP scores of the enemies.

I haven't read the whole article, but I'm failing to see how they're considered a striker, at least compared to any of the strikers already out there. Their extra damage ability is once per turn, and only adds your wisdom modifier to the damage.

Come to think of it, one of the key distinguishing traits of the monk in previous editions of D&D was an ever-increasing base unarmed strike damage. This does not seem to have been carried over in the class abilities, but perhaps there will be a feat that increases the damage dealt by monk weapons in the Paragon and Epic tiers? This would address both these issues.

 

[jtrowell]

Note that the Monk can target many defenses, and have many weapon attacks versus NADs (including at will attacks), meaning that they have a good precision with such attacks.

Yes, I'm aware that attacks marked as 'implement' do not get the proficiency bonus, but not all attacks versus NADs are implement ones.

 

[Klaus]

The previewed build seems to be more like a Striker/Controller type of monk. No doubt we'll see a build that falls more squarely into Striker when the class is fully unveiled. The current build seems to be more of applying conditions/dealing damage to multiple opponents, making it a melee-range controller.

As for the trade of ki for psionic, it's something I've been clamoring since forever, so YAY!

 

[Mad Mac]

Feedback so far.

I think I've got a handle on how full disciplines work, but it could certainly stand to be written cleaner.

Flurry of Blows has the implement keyword, but doesn't specify if you are supposed to add implement bonus to damage. I know the general rule for rolling vs fixed damage, but this could use clarification.

Related to the above, if Flurry is just straight Wis mod damage, it looks a bit weak on paper, even with the multi-attack potential. The flexibility of it is great, but as an added damage feature, it may need work.

It's fine at 1st level, 2-4 damage vs 1d6 or 1d8, but in paragon. doing 5 damage to 2 targets is not nearly as good as adding 2d6 or 2d8 to a single opponent, esp since that damage is maximized on a crit.

I really don't like Centered Breath as a style name. I see what they were going for, but build options should sound relatively appealing, and also descriptive.

Ah, and since it hasn't been mentioned in this thread, the enchanting fists with ritual thing is problematic with DM's trying to hand out treasure parcels, as magic items created by players are consistantly lower level than what is found as treasure.

 

[FDM]

While I think it is almost certainly an error that they do not, the monk's at wills need to do more damage starting in the epic tier.

I'd like monks to be able to acquire some item that enchants their unarmed attack instead of relying on Transfer Enchantment for items higher than their level. Artificial? Maybe. I really like game balance, though!

 

[Piratecat]

No religion on class list, and I think there's a missing lvl 22 power.

 

[chaotix42]

Flurry of Blows has the implement keyword, but doesn't specify if you are supposed to add implement bonus to damage. I know the general rule for rolling vs fixed damage, but this could use clarification.

Related to the above, if Flurry is just straight Wis mod damage, it looks a bit weak on paper, even with the multi-attack potential. The flexibility of it is great, but as an added damage feature, it may need work.

It's fine at 1st level, 2-4 damage vs 1d6 or 1d8, but in paragon. doing 5 damage to 2 targets is not nearly as good as adding 2d6 or 2d8 to a single opponent, esp since that damage is maximized on a crit.

Agreed. I would like to see enhancement bonus damage added on, otherwise their extra striker damage is pretty weak.

*edit* Klaus could be right though. The Strength-centric build might get a more damaging power.

I really don't like Centered Breath as a style name. I see what they were going for, but build options should sound relatively appealing, and also descriptive.

Agreed here, too. I would like to see a name based more on the Wisdom-centric aspects of the build & related powers, like Focused Mind or something. Not the best name on my part, but yah get mah drift.

Ah, and since it hasn't been mentioned in this thread, the enchanting fists with ritual thing is problematic with DM's trying to hand out treasure parcels, as magic items created by players are consistantly lower level than what is found as treasure.

The Transfer Enchantment ritual from AV would work with a monk's fists, but that doesn't help groups without AV at their fingertips. Maybe during a short rest a monk could destroy a magic weapon and gain the weapon's enchantment on his fists?