Monk Grappling

[the_bruiser]

Hello all. One of my players is a monk with the improved grapple chain. I'm not sure exactly how good he is at it. It seems like sometime in the past I saw someone (Hypersmurf?) on these boards point to rules that say that grappling in many ways is not the 'same' as unarmed attacks; any help would be appreciated.

1. Does weapon focus: unarmed help with grapple checks? Seems like I'm pretty sure that someone pointed out that they do not, but I can't remember why.
2. Do they get to flurry with grappling? I.e., should he be +20/+20/+20/+15/+10, or just +20/+15/+10?
3. Does he get his monk unarmed damage with these attacks? I.e., is he 2d8+4 or d3+4? If the latter (d3), does the 'one size bigger' part of improved grapple up his damage die, or just give him the +4 to hit?
4. He has an amulet of mighty fists +2. Does this help with grappling? (I suspect not?)
5. Any other items I'm forgetting about?

Thanks everyone.

[edit - subscribed to thread]

 

[Kae'Yoss]

1. No, it's no attack roll with an unarmed attack, it's a grapple check
2. Not sure on that one, I'd say they can flurry grapple
3. He gets his unarmed attack damage, for he can deal his unarmed damage with grapple. But there's no "one size bigger" part to improved grapple. You get +4 on grapple checks, but that's not the same. (There is a feat, maybe there are several, that lets you make grapple checks like a bigger creature - one is in The Way of the Open Hand - but that should only apply to the grapple check, not to damage).
4. They give an enhancement bonus for is unarmed strike, yes? I think they wouldn't improve grapple checks, but the unarmed damage would be better (not sure about that, though)
5. Can't think of anything right now

 

[the_bruiser]

Perfect - what you're saying is pretty much in line with how I thought it should be.

1. No, it's no attack roll with an unarmed attack, it's a grapple check

Make sense.

2. Not sure on that one, I'd say they can flurry grapple

Good. I'll tell him to get wpn foc: grapple if he wants that.

3. He gets his unarmed attack damage, for he can deal his unarmed damage with grapple. But there's no "one size bigger" part to improved grapple. You get +4 on grapple checks, but that's not the same. (There is a feat, maybe there are several, that lets you make grapple checks like a bigger creature - one is in The Way of the Open Hand - but that should only apply to the grapple check, not to damage).

Perfect; wow, that makes him a deadly grappler.

4. They give an enhancement bonus for is unarmed strike, yes? I think they wouldn't improve grapple checks, but the unarmed damage would be better (not sure about that, though)

Interesting; I agree about the grapple checks, but hadn't considered giving him the damage bonus. Anybody else have any insight here?

5. Can't think of anything right now

That's cool; I really appreciate your response.

 

[Hypersmurf]

It seems like sometime in the past I saw someone (Hypersmurf?) on these boards...

Yeah, probably

Do they get to flurry with grappling?

In a flurry, a monk can only attack with unarmed strikes or special monk weapons. A grapple check is neither.

What he can do if he's already grappling is use the 'attack with light weapon at -4' option to Flurry with unarmed strikes or light special monk weapons, but he can't initiate a grapple, or use any of the grapple check options like damage opponent, pin, escape grapple, etc.

He has an amulet of mighty fists +2. Does this help with grappling? (I suspect not?)

I'm inclined to say no, but there's room to rule either way on the damage issue.

When using the 'damage opponent' option, you're not using an unarmed strike... but you deal damage equivalent to your unarmed strike.

Now, if you have a magic item that adds +2 to your damage when you make an unarmed strike, does 'damage equivalent to your unarmed strike' take that into account? I'm inclined to say no... just as Bracers of Striking giving your unarmed strike the 'Holy' property wouldn't automatically apply +2d6 damage to evil creatures with a grapple.

But someone else might rule differently, and still be supported by the wording

-Hyp.