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Monk's Belt help

Nail

First Post
Ack. Cut-n-paste errors. :eek: Ah-well. Point still stands!

Clr 14 "without Monk's Belt": AC 34
Clr 14 "with Monk's Belt": AC 32

The pearl of power idea is okay...but dispel-able.

A bracers of armor +5/ring +2 is cheaper.....but I can't (currently) use that extra 5,000gp for anything AC-related. All my other slots are full! :) So no extra AC.

My Wis 24 comes from: Rolled Wis 17, +3 from levels, +4 from circlet of wisdom +4.
 

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Darkness

Hand and Eye of Piratecat [Moderator]
Nail... Can you do a Druid example, BTW? I think Druid was more contested than Cleric, meaning it would be more useful.
 

KarinsDad

Adventurer
Nail said:
(Coming into this discussion late......)

I play an elvish Clr 14 with above average wealth. As I started reading this thread, I thought: "Gees, I should get me a Monk's Belt!"

...

Wow, what a great item for my min-maxed Clr 14 to get! He can make his AC worse by 3 points for the same amount of money! :)

Like I always say, do the math (even with a minor mistake) before determining your opinion.

I too would like to see a Druid example.

I suspect that a Druid with normal material armor and shield would do quite well with a Monk's Belt (since even +5 hide armor is 2 AC lower than your +5 mithral breastplate), but if you allow for special material armors and shields (which I am not too familiar with since I do not play a Druid or have a high level Druid in my current campaign), it won't be as good.
 

BAW

First Post
Hmmmm.....

Seems to be a bit of disagreement over this question, and I thought everything had been wrapped up after 3 posts :eek:

Oh well, I don't know why but the image of a druid in hide armour always bothered me a little. Flavour-wise, while the item is called a Monk's belt, it seems to suit my image of a druid; a rough cloak and a belt-no obvious massive armour for protection. Not like the dragon full-plate wearing ones you get wandering around trying to survive.

As for a comparison with a druid. I think things will turn out similar to the cleric-very stat dependent and not quite as good. The difference will be when wild-shape becomes involved where the extra AC (provided it doesn't stack with the wild-shape property) might actually make combat in animal form a possibility, though it is up to your GM as to which slots you can keep-so a pretty wide variation there.

I'll be back and post a comparison for a high level druid optimized for AC in animal form. Might take a little time though
 
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Nail

First Post
Well....don't do an "optimized" druid. Do one that would actually see play in a game (not a 1 shot!).

I threw in my Clr 14 example because I play the character, and have since level 4.......good grief, that was almost 2 years ago! :) I DM a Drd 9....but she's not working on optimizing her AC and melee combat.

We've all seen the "smack-down" builds....but I've yet to see any in play. Or even read about any in a Storyhour. So if it's not a problem in play, what kind of problem is it?
 

Diirk

First Post
I'd do a comparison based on the druid I played from 1st -> 15th in a long campaign, but the last char sheet I can find of him is from 12th level just after he lost almost all his gear in an unforunate accident... wouldn't be a particularly good example.

From memory tho I ended with 24 wis (19 + extrapolated +5 wis periapt), wooden wild fullplate +2 (cast ironwood on it once a week or so), animated darkwood shield +3 and an ioun stone of +1 CL... that was pretty much it. Thats somewhat excessively below standard wealth, our party just tended to give items to whoever could use them, then split the cash equally. This didn't particularly bother me as most items wouldn't work in wildshaped form anyway in our campaign... it did make the character a bit dull tho. That and not being able to speak while wildshaped kinda put me off the class a bit.

Anyway in dire bear form (my preferred shape), AC was -1 size, +1 dex, +7 natural, +11 armour, +5 shield + barkskin = 38 total.

Ignoring the periapt and ioun stone, which would be the same in both builds, the 50k spent on the plate+shield would get belt (13k) + bracers of armour +6 (36k). Ring of deflection was ruled to merge while wildshaped in all animal forms but gorilla types, so that wouldn't have been any use. Amulet of natural armour doesn't stack with barkskin, and I had a periapt anyway, so also useless.

Belt build would get me AC = -1 size, +1 dex, +7 natural, +7 wisdom, +1 belt, +6 bracers, +5 barkskin = 36 AC. 2 points lower.

The dex restriction doesn't matter as a bear (13 dex), the movement speed decrease is fairly minimal (40' -> 30'... compared to the party fighter/clerics at 20' or others at 30'), and ACP usually didn't matter. The only significant thing was spending a feat, but even without it you can do the same with a breastplate for a total of 1 AC less than said belt build.

However as you get more money (ie. closer to standard wealth) the belt becomes markedly less effective; you're stuck with improving 1 item (bracers of armour) for extra AC as opposed to 2 (armour, shield)... this is assuming you're going to be maxing your wis bonus anyway, as I did, yet that would be less important with a non-belt build.

+6 -> +8 bracers of armour = 28,000 gold for 2 ac. +5 armour/shield -> +6 = 11,000 gp each for 2 ac. And remember those bracers max out at +9... so eventually you're looking at +5 wild fullplate (+8 equivelant) and +5 animated shield (+7 equiv) for +20 AC vs your +9 bracers and +8 wis bonus for +17 AC. If you dump a ton of money into tomes, you can manage to get +11 wis bonus and equal the armour/shield build. Barely. But it won't happen til 20th, and the majority of campaigns won't get that high.

The monks belt has certain advantages and disadvantages, its certainly not overpowered tho even for the druid, who arguably benefits the most from it. (PS. monks belt won't be too happy when you wildshape into a fire elemental)
 

BAW

First Post
Perhaps optimized wasn't the right word

I was going for an optimized druid meaning the best overall build I could get from a high-level druid and the items that character could have.

Perhaps I wasn't clear in that. It isn't an attempt to get an AC of over 60 or something like that but a character that could see play if they wee introduced into a high level game. No bizarre prestige classes or multi-classing but the *best* IMHO build of a straight level druid, including which animal to wildshape into to get the highest AC while wildshaped.
 


maggot

First Post
What about cleric or druid archers that won't be using a shield anyway? I know my 12th level elven cleric would have loved to turn in his chainshirt for a monk's belt if only because his Dex was so high it hit the mithral limit.
 

Diirk

First Post
Depends how high your wisdom is and how much your dex is capped by, I'd expect... up until you're losing 4 dex bonus to AC from the max dex limit, your chain shirt is still cheaper than bracers of armour, point for point. As an archer, you can still use an animated shield.

If you're working on keeping your wisdom high anyway, the monk's belt will most likely be the better option for a high dex build. I don't really see that as a bad thing. Some items are only decent for a couple of classes or even specific builds for those classes.. no news there.
 

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