Monsters with levels lower than PCs - useless?

[BigCat]

In my last game I put my 5th level PCs up against a horde of 3rd level monsters, which I hadn't tried before - usually I do equal level or higher. I expected the PCs to do well, but I didn't expect a total cakewalk. The PCs completely thrashed the monsters while barely getting scratched. Was this a fluke? Or are sub-PC-level monsters totally worthless?

 

[Dracorat]

You probably gave them monsters that play to their strengths. The level difference will make that even wider of a gap.

You need to consider having lower level monsters using varied tactics. Controllers become ever more important.

 

[Vayden]

They can be useful, but not by themselves. I frequently mix in some n-1 or n-2 monsters to round out a combat on the edges, but I would never design a whole encounter with all monsters lower level than the PCs.

 

[James McMurray]

How many is "a horde"? If it was 8 or fewer you gave them a standard encounter's worth of xp with lower level monsters, which is expected to be a fairly easy encounter.

Lower level monsters aren't worthless, but they are going to die faster and do much less damage. To compensate you need good tactics and/or monsters chosen to challenge specific PCs (skirmishers vs. fighters, dwarves for push-happy types, etc.). What were the monsters and what is the party made up of?

If you want even more bang for your lower level monster buck you can make them minions. A level or two is usually only a point or two of damage for a minion, and since you're expecting the weaker standards to die in one or two hits anyway, you actually get more mileage out of minions (barring AoEs of course). If you make some of them artillery you ensure that they all have a higher chance of getting to act multiple times before dying.

 

[Subumloc]

I know that this may not be the most useful answer, but as always, it depends on the monsters and the party setup. IME monsters a couple levels lower than the PCs are still credible threats, but this may not always be the case.

 

[Rhianni32]

I agree that it depends more on the monsters abilities vs the party's.
I had a 6th lvl party almost get wiped out vs a horde of 3rd lvl monsters that had great terrain advantages and great combos of powers.

 

[LittleFuzzy]

Partly it depends on the tactical situation. I ran one encounter where the party was fighting a couple of even-level demons around some hazardous terrain features, and the party had a terrible time grinding them down. A few encounters later they faced a larger number of those demons along with squares of trapped floor and the demons weren't too big of a problem, despite there being twice as many.

 

[Victim]

I'm going to have to agree with the chorus and say that it depends on the PCs and the monsters (and the environment too). Some characteristics can make low level monsters more or less threatening. For example, low level guys with an auto damage aura can bypass higher level defenses (up to a point - there will be stacking issues, so hordes of similar guys will be less effective). Dryads, when in their favored terrain, are very mobile and have good accuracy and conditional damage bonuses. So they can be pretty decent against higher level characters, especially if aided by the higher level, elite dryad, because they will usually be going for a more vulnerable character, often with situational bonuses to attack (flanking, charging).

Monsters that debuff defenses or add extra bonuses can make weaker allies far more effective. For example, Bone Devils can drop a target's Will with their poison, and have another attack that drops everything. War Devils can add to their allies attacks with their marks. Pit Fiends have another ability to drop all defenses. So weak allies might be attacking at +12 or more compared to normal, which will really improve their effectiveness - even monsters outside the normal useful level range could land hits then (especially if they can go for weak defenses), although they would die more easily than normal enemies.

 

[cbbakke]

I have found in general that their formula for encounters is a little off. If the encounter should be about 1,000 exp for a standard encounter, the party blows through the encounter unless I do about 50% more so 1,500.

I am pretty stingy with magic items and try to play monsters accurately. zombies just attack wahtever is closer where an elf ranger stays as far back as possible.

 

[babinro]

I agree with cbbakke, the experience seems off when playing with a group of experienced D&D players (3E players). If the xp count is 2000xp. I'd probably make an encounter of that much experience, and then through in 8 minions for example...to make it so the main enemies have a chance to 'challenge' the PC's while not overwhelming them.

Of course the more 'controlling' the enemies are, the more of a threat they are. Brutes seldom pose a problem.