Monsters with mark immunity?

[CanadianCavalry]

I have been running a game for a couple of months for a small group, and have just passed it over to one of my players. He is a first time DM and we discuss our campaigns and rules and such on a regular basis.
He recently told me that one of the key monsters he created has immunity to marks from pc's. This seems like a potential disaster for our group: warlock, sorcerer, devout cleric and defensive paladin. Even if it is balanced, it seems like robbing one of the players of one of his most vital abilities for several encounters is just going to leave him frustrated.
I have suggested perhaps making it immune to one of the effects, ie. Doesn't take damage or doesn't take -2 to hit on other targets, but he is adamant.
Is there any precedent for mark immunity in the first place? Are there any house rules that effectively deal with this?
Any feedback or suggestions are appreciated.

 

[Obergnom]

hmm, there are several monsters who have such an ability, but it is not a direct mark immunity, rather the monster can take a certain action that results in marks ending. The only newish (MM3+) one I have used is the Gnome Assassin from the Monster Vault who has a teleport ability with this effect.

Then there are monsters with "fly-by-attack" in 3e terms. They use moves that do not provoke OA... which basically makes the fighters mark (that prevents shifting) alot weaker. The Monster Vault Blue dragon is the one I currently remember.

I'm sure there are more of these, lurkers and skirmishers as well as mobility based solos.

... I guess it depends on how often this monster will actually be in the game, but while my group was fighting a blue dragon I admited to the fighter player that I would have felt kind of cheated if I was him. It was okay because it was a solo and a dragon, but to me as DM it did not feel cool and a bit like cheating.

 

[Saeviomagy]

I think if he makes a common monster flat-out immune to marks, that's just being really cheap. It's as bad as making monsters immune to 'striker bonus damage' or 'AOE' or saying 'healing doesn't work while you're in an encounter with this creature'.

There's no problem with giving a monster a specific power that ignores marks, or ignoring part of a mark. Ignoring all mark effects crosses the line, but might still be fine for a one-off monster. If it's going to be an ongoing thing, that's bad.

 

[Oxades]

If I understand the rules right, defenders are the ones that have “marks”. A rangers hunter’s quarry, rogues sneak attack, warlocks curse Etc... are not a “mark”. So if his goal is to make a monster that wills terrify the part by ignoring the defenders this would do it. If he does plan on including hunter’s quarry, sneak attack, warlocks curse Etc...then I would say that is to much and he need to more clearly define what immunity to marks from pc's is.

Even if it is just a defenders mark, this is probable going to frustrate the party and if the monsters are ignoring the defenders then he could TPK the party without even trying. I would suggest that he runs the game for a while before making monsters that can do this.

 

[the Jester]

I have not seen anything in 4e that gives immunity to marks, and I don't think it's mechanically sound.

I have no problem with monsters that have a mechanic for ending marks on them, though.

 

[CanadianCavalry]

hmm, there are several monsters who have such an ability, but it is not a direct mark immunity, rather the monster can take a certain action that results in marks ending. The only newish (MM3+) one I have used is the Gnome Assassin from the Monster Vault who has a teleport ability with this effect.

Then there are monsters with "fly-by-attack" in 3e terms. They use moves that do not provoke OA... which basically makes the fighters mark (that prevents shifting) alot weaker. The Monster Vault Blue dragon is the one I currently remember.

I'll suggest this as a possible aternative. Thanks
To clarify the mark in question is the paladins divine challenge, which in our game has mainly been used to damage targets that ignore the paladin.

... I guess it depends on how often this monster will actually be in the game, but while my group was fighting a blue dragon I admited to the fighter player that I would have felt kind of cheated if I was him. It was okay because it was a solo and a dragon, but to me as DM it did not feel cool and a bit like cheating.

I was informed they would "be in no more then 3-4 encounters". Since thats about a one to one and a half sessions for us, I can see our paladin getting pretty tired of it as he's not the kind of player that likes feeling useless for even a single encounter.

Just for reference sake, I'm playing the sorceror (wild magic), and the cleric is played by an optimizer and has very low hp and defenses for a cleric.

Thanks for the ideas and feedback.

 

[Mengu]

I think if he makes a common monster flat-out immune to marks, that's just being really cheap. It's as bad as making monsters immune to 'striker bonus damage' or 'AOE' or saying 'healing doesn't work while you're in an encounter with this creature'.

There's no problem with giving a monster a specific power that ignores marks, or ignoring part of a mark. Ignoring all mark effects crosses the line, but might still be fine for a one-off monster. If it's going to be an ongoing thing, that's bad.

Strangely enough, I have used monsters immune to striker bonus damage (aka minions), and had encounters where healing effects were halved (until certain skill challenge conditions were satisfied), and have used monsters resistant to burst and blast damage, but I have yet to use a monster that ignores marks.

Having said that, for 3-4 encounters, having some monsters that ignore marks is no different than having some monsters with a few more hit points and a couple points higher attack bonuses. It just makes tougher encounters. If the defender was versatile enough with power selection to choose some powers that push or slide enemies, give them attack penalties, or slow/immobilize/daze them, then his mark being negated is going to be manageable, especially for only 3-4 encounters. I'd say this is no big deal. It's the life of an adventurer, you deal with whatever comes your way.