Monte Cook and 5e

[Umbran]

I'm reading a lot of aggression and anger in the tone of your posts and I don't get where it's coming from. Relax.

All in all, I would say that you are feeling defensive.

Gentlemen,

Both of you are making this personal. I'm not sure how many times we have to say this, but let me try again:

Address the post, not the person of the poster.

Get it? I hope so. If you have questions, please take then to e-mail or PM. Thank you.

 

[TheAuldGrump]

Gentlemen,

Both of you are making this personal. I'm not sure how many times we have to say this, but let me try again:

Address the post, not the person of the poster.

Get it? I hope so. If you have questions, please take then to e-mail or PM. Thank you.

'Kay.

The Auld Grump

 

[TheAuldGrump]

Monte is a professional, and an acclaimed designer in many circles, and I expect he'll give an honest effort producing a game that is fun. The whole team will. However, I get the feeling he has very little (or maybe no) play or design experience with 4e from his L&L, journal, interviews, and twitter. That really does bum me out, given the many positives I feel have come from this current iteration.

I don't know, maybe that's what the rpg team is looking for, fresh perspective accompanying 4e designers. Design is definitely a group effort, and it seems like they're trying to take the best of every edition into account, but I'm kind of turned off by his joining, and especially his published ruminations on the site, while 4e is still living. I guess I'm also a little sore about Baker leaving, who was doing positive things with 4e, and Monte joining, waxing poetic about things that, while interesting, don't pertain to the current edition, my edition.

Maybe if he actually dipped a toe into the current edition, tried to co-design something, or just acknowledged it, I'd feel a little better. Instead he's kind of just there, writing stuff, working behind the scenes, and I don't like it.

Something to bear in mind is that 3.X was, in part, his baby. He is likely a lot more comfortable running games in what is, to him, a native system.

It is also possible that he was specifically brought in to bring 4e closer to 3.X, I don't know how WotC management is dealing with trying to regain marketshare.

He may not be allowed to post about 5e, even if he is working on it.

It would be nice if WotC still had folks that posted here on a regular basis, but perhaps they feel that the atmosphere has become overly critical, maybe toxic (sorry, it was the curry), or there have been words from on high to only use the official WotC site for posting.

I... don't know. I don't read the official WotC site, but then I didn't much read it in the 3.X days either.

How has reaction been on the WotC boards to Monte's articles? Is there a similar feel that 5e is lurking in the wings?

The Auld Grump

 

[Rechan]

He may not be allowed to post about 5e, even if he is working on it.

If he is working on it, then I can't imagine that he would be permitted to mention it.

Not one word was said about 4e until it was announced at Gen Con. Right up to the announcement, WotC staff would deny anything if asked even at conventions. Not denying it would have probably meant their jobs.

Even post-announcement, playtesters have NDAs. Same with Freelancers.

And even if he's working on it, 5e would be in its infancy, and would take at least two years to get ready to launch. No good would come of mentioning it right now even if he could.

 

[Lum The Mad]

Monte is a professional, and an acclaimed designer in many circles, and I expect he'll give an honest effort producing a game that is fun. The whole team will. However, I get the feeling he has very little (or maybe no) play or design experience with 4e from his L&L, journal, interviews, and twitter. ...

You are not the first person I see complaining that Monte Cook doesn't appear to be familiar with 4e.

I don't know whether this is true, but if it is, WotC apparently didn't think that this would be relevant. And that doesn't speak well for the 4e.

Let's look at the situation as if WotC was a car manufacturer. What we have here is a company that hires back the designer of the 'year 2000 model'. This particular designer didn't work on the 'year 2008 model'. In fact it seems he is not very familiar with the 'year 2008 model'. Why would they do this? The only logical conclusions I can see are: the car manufacturer wants the future model to be either more like the one from the year 2000 or just in no way like the 2008 model.

 

[Pour]

Something to bear in mind is that 3.X was, in part, his baby. He is likely a lot more comfortable running games in what is, to him, a native system.

It is also possible that he was specifically brought in to bring 4e closer to 3.X, I don't know how WotC management is dealing with trying to regain marketshare.

He may not be allowed to post about 5e, even if he is working on it.

It would be nice if WotC still had folks that posted here on a regular basis, but perhaps they feel that the atmosphere has become overly critical, maybe toxic (sorry, it was the curry), or there have been words from on high to only use the official WotC site for posting.

I... don't know. I don't read the official WotC site, but then I didn't much read it in the 3.X days either.

How has reaction been on the WotC boards to Monte's articles? Is there a similar feel that 5e is lurking in the wings?

The Auld Grump

I agree, 3.5e is very likely his preference, which is fine I suppose, but when I mentioned acknowledging the edition, I didn't mean 5e, I meant 4e. His articles really do not address much about the current game, even though his writing is featured on the main site. He really has nothing to do with the current game as near as I can tell, which is a little puzzling. Every question asking just what he's doing at WotC is met with a little tongue and cheek. I'm pretty sure the consensus on every board is he is working on 5e in some capacity. That doesn't really bother me so much as his lack of interest and knowledge of the current edition, his 'passive perception' article being one such instance, and the twitter picture of his bookcase devoid of even one 4e book perhaps being another.

I honestly don't think he was brought in to bring 4e or 5e closer to the 3e. For as much as he doesn't mention 4e, he doesn't mention 3e or any other by name. He kind of dances around concepts from different editions without ever naming them, then sometimes spins some alternatives, amalgams, and compromises. I can take or leave L&L personally, and if he was brought in to actively work on D&D I'd be okay with it, but as it is right now I feel like there's a stranger in the house so to speak.

 

[TheAuldGrump]

You are not the first person I see complaining that Monte Cook doesn't appear to be familiar with 4e.

I don't know whether this is true, but if it is, WotC apparently didn't think that this would be relevant. And that doesn't speak well for the 4e.

Let's look at the situation as if WotC was a car manufacturer. What we have here is a company that hires back the designer of the 'year 2000 model'. This particular designer didn't work on the 'year 2008 model'. In fact it seems he is not very familiar with the 'year 2008 model'. Why would they do this? The only logical conclusions I can see are: the car manufacturer wants the future model to be either more like the one from the year 2000 or just in no way like the 2008 model.

Ow.

If so, then I think that WotC is making a mistake.

While no fan of 4e, I have heard good things about the more recent releases - Fey Wilds, Shadow, etc..

I think redirecting the game might be more productive than tossing it. Figure out what worked and what did not work.

Or would most of the silent majority of 4e players just as silently switch games to 5e, leaving us vocal 10% (?) to be the ones making the fuss?

The Auld Grump

 

[TheAuldGrump]

I agree, 3.5e is very likely his preference, which is fine I suppose, but when I mentioned acknowledging the edition, I didn't mean 5e, I meant 4e. His articles really do not address much about the current game, even though his writing is featured on the main site. He really has nothing to do with the current game as near as I can tell, which is a little puzzling. Every question asking just what he's doing at WotC is met with a little tongue and cheek. I'm pretty sure the consensus on every board is he is working on 5e in some capacity. That doesn't really bother me so much as his lack of interest and knowledge of the current edition, his 'passive perception' article being one such instance, and the twitter picture of his bookcase devoid of even one 4e book perhaps being another.

I honestly don't think he was brought in to bring 4e or 5e closer to the 3e. For as much as he doesn't mention 4e, he doesn't mention 3e or any other by name. He kind of dances around concepts from different editions without ever naming them, then sometimes spins some alternatives, amalgams, and compromises. I can take or leave L&L personally, and if he was brought in to actively work on D&D I'd be okay with it, but as it is right now I feel like there's a stranger in the house so to speak.

Of course, it is also possible that he just plain does not like the game, and is following his mother's advice - 'if you can't say something nice, then don't say anything at all'....

But, given that Monte is a professional, that seems unlikely.

Has anyone seen any comments by Monte about 4e before he joined back up with WotC?

The Auld Grump

 

[Pour]

Of course, it is also possible that he just plain does not like the game, and is following his mother's advice - 'if you can't say something nice, then don't say anything at all'....

But, given that Monte is a professional, that seems unlikely.

Has anyone seen any comments by Monte about 4e before he joined back up with WotC?

The Auld Grump

Not sure how he feels about it, or how much his preference will affect 5e as part of a design group. While my hope is 5e is informed by 4e, it's too soon to speculate on 5e.

I just don't like him living in the 4e house and not contributing. Then again, considering how long it takes for material to go from design to published, and his return still being a relatively recent occurence, maybe he will pitch in eventually. I believe Monte could offer us some good stuff. If his one job is 5e work, well, it puts me off is all- and again, this is probably a little off base given the fact a good 4e designer in Baker, who was actively supporting the game, was let go recently.

 

[TheAuldGrump]

Not sure how he feels about it, or how much his preference will affect 5e as part of a design group. While my hope is 5e is informed by 4e, it's too soon to speculate on 5e.

I just don't like him living in the 4e house and not contributing. Then again, considering how long it takes for material to go from design to published, and his return still being a relatively recent occurence, maybe he will pitch in eventually. I believe Monte could offer us some good stuff. If his one job is 5e work, well, it puts me off is all- and again, this is probably a little off base given the fact a good 4e designer in Baker, who was actively supporting the game, was let go recently.

I do not understand the internal dynamics of WotC.

More than anything else, I fear that there will be no 5e, and that D&D will exist only as a property for licensed products and video games. I just finished reading the Escapist article, and going by that it looks like Hasbro was considering dropping D&D even before 4e stumbled out the door.

People in a panic do dumb things.

The Auld Grump