Morale

[peterka1]

Since there no longer official rules for morale (surrender! No! I will fight up to death... and beyond), anybody has one ?

Using diplomacy or intimidation ?

Modified by what factors ?

 

[Majou]

I do two things.
1. I check the inteligence of the monsters. If they have low inteligence (below 5) they may not think of retreating. If they are weak but inteligent they will flee once their numbers are equal to the pcs. unless they have a reason not to. If they are strong and smart they will flee (or attempt) when lower than 80% of hp.

2. if the players want to bluff, intimidate or talk (use diplomacy) in an encounter I do opposed rolls. Most inteligent monster will try to avoid a fight if they can get what they were after (food, money, etc.)

I don't have a house rule though. I sort of liked the old DnD method of giving a morale score to each monster.

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[Randolpho]

I say don't bother.

The whole reason Morale was dropped was because it was about the rules dictating that a character *did*. Note that not a single rule in 3e forces a character to act in any particular way.

It's entirely subjective. It's entire DM call. Which is the way it should be.

 

[peterka1]

thanks.

What just be the modifiers to diplomacy or intimidating to surrender/flee /?

2/1 fire power:+2 1/2 -2 ?
presence of magic or can't affect opponents/needs +x weapons give morale penalities as for 2nd edition ?

I would need a chart or these skills will be uneffective.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

There are rules for morale, or did they change the DMG:

p.84-85:
(brief information)
Shakened
-2 moral penalty on attack & weapon damage rolls and on saving throws.
Frightened
As Shakend, plus:
If possible, the target ist most likely to flee, but else it will fight.
-2 moral penalty on attack & weapon damage rolls and on saving throws.
Panicked
As Shakened, plus:
A panicked creature must flee, and has a 50% chance to drop what he`s holding, chooses his path randomly (as long there is no other immediate threat that way) and flees any other dangers that confrint him. If cornered, a panicked creature cowers. A creaute muay use a special ability or spell to escape (like teleport, dimenson door).

Initimidation has a DC equal to 10+target`s hit dies.
This DC increases by the points of bonus vs. fear effects.
And there are spells that cause fear effects...

And their are also moral "bonus", like inspired by bards and paladins and some spells.

A rule of thumb is that favorable circumstances give a +2 bonus to a check. I think that is a good baseline...

 

[Malin Genie]

Let's say our party is in a fight with some orcs (1 HD.) We are winning the fight, and I make an Intimidation check on them (base DC 11.)

What effect would a result of 11 have? Would they flee? Become shaken? Nothing?

What about a result of 21? Or 31?

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Actually, I am not sure.
Look in the PHB under the Skill Description, if it is not mentionend there, than it should be the weakest effect (regardless of result, though you could use the rules for differend stages of success presentend somewhere in the DMG), shakened.
Be aware that fear effects "stack", so that a shakend creature that suffers a "new" effect that makes him shakened, than it becomes frightened. (Stacking does not mean that the penalties itself stack, just that you suffer a more intense fear effect when multiple fear effects apply)

 

[S'mon]

I like the 2e (or OD&D) approach. If the GM needs a roll to know if the monsters run away, roll 2d10 or 2d6, if it's over their morale rating they run away. I find this simple and usable. I only roll if I'm unsure what the monsters will do. For average monsters, they get Morale 11 for a 2d10 roll, Elites get 14, ultra-elites 18, conscript troops 8, etc.

 

[peterka1]

p.84-85: (brief information)
Shakened -2 moral penalty on attack & weapon damage rolls and on saving throws. Frightened As Shakend, plus: If possible, the target ist most likely to flee, but else it will fight. 2 moral penalty on attack & weapon damage rolls and on saving throws.
Panicked As Shakened, plus:
A panicked creature must flee, and has a 50% chance to drop what he`s holding, chooses his path randomly (as long there is no other immediate threat that way) and flees any other dangers that confrint him. If cornered, a panicked creature cowers. A creaute muay use a special ability or spell to escape (like teleport, dimenson door).

I think the best way to handle it will be to switch fear state from opponents the same way you change mood from neutral to friendly... (opposite!) shaken -> panic = hostile -> helpful...

with diplomacy or intimidation... You must have a way to treathens opponents (ex: cornered).
Diplomacy full success means surrender, intimidation panic.

Using these skill to panic/weaken opponents should count as a regular action...