More lay-offs at WOTC! [Merged]

[NLP]

WotC still has what, some 250 employees left? Considering that WotC only produces 2 game supplements a month I am surprised they have that many around.

What does the company really need? 4-5 to come up with some ideas. 4-5 more guys to implement those ideas by hiring freelancers and overseeing projects. 4-5 more guys to work on visuals and marketing. 4-5 more guys to work on editing and layout. 2-3 good in-house artists. 2-3 guys to call the printer and schedule distribution. What is that, like 25 guys? Triple the number to cover the novel and card game divisions and there you go.

WotC does not need employees for Dragon, Dungeon, or Polyhedron any more. WotC does not produce enough rpg material on a monthly basis to justify huge staffs. Heck, there are many smaller-press publishers that have more product gaming coming out per month than WotC does.

I do not think WotC need 300+ employees to produce 2-3 game products, 2-3 novels, and 10 new Magic Cards per month. Your mileage may vary.

 

[Squirrel Nutkin]

IAs evidence, I offer you cabbage patch kinds, tickle me elmo, furby, atari, the death of superman comic, etc. These pop culture fads don't last because their target audience, children, do not have attention spans that last, further more, at that age after a single year has gone by they are completely different people and their interests have thoroughly changed!

Now, I wouldn't call Atari a fad. That company and its consoles were killed off by mismanagement. I think Nintendo has already proven that the infamous video game "bust" in the mid-Eighties had everything to do with the suits running Atari, Mattel, Magnavox, etc. at the time.

 

[Greybar]

Hmm... about 10 years ago if you talked to RPG players they would talk about how terrible T$R was, how Gary Gygax really wasn't that great (and he was a *gasp* wargamer anyway), et cetera. Now people overlook his flaws (and every human has plenty of 'em), and he enjoys a cult of personality again, revered as the creator of the hobby.

I predict that if you wait another 5-10 years, everyone will be talking about the "Golden Years" of WoTC and 3rd edition D&D. Don't worry Mr. Dancey, Mr. Valterra, and all the others. You'll be demigods to the next generation ... just let the memories fade to gold.

It's just a lot easier for the mob mentality to kick in, and slam the WoTC people right now, while they are "faceless" and everyone is panicked, angry, and hurt. Obviously they're all beancounters, icky manager-types, and demon worshippers (and not the fun kind of demon either!)

John

 

[Katerek]

(end sarcasm)

Good grief, what is the matter with you? How can a rational person not see that D&D is better than ever? That we've got more, better RPG products than ever before? That these layoffs introduce even more talented writers to the freelance/3rd party pool, which means we'll see even MORE interesting new products?

Wake up and make a Spot check for seeing the state of D&D, instead of merely failing your Will save vs. an irrational emotional reaction to the word "layoff".

-z

PS: The above, of course, is zero comfort to those who are now out of a job.

I think I misrepresented my intention. By shame I was merely referring to the corporate aspects that our 'hobby' has taken on.

But thank you nonetheless for thw ever witty, if sarcastic, reality check. You make some good points, points I largely agree with.

Ultimately I feel horrible for those facing the layoffs, I have been there and it stinks. I have faith, however, that they will rebound. The industry is to ravenous for talent and solid product right now, I don't suppose it matters too much what the label is.

 

[JLXC]

I think too many Americans are SO used to Corporate EVIL that they are complacent. Who cares if they let go everyone who helped create 3E? Who cares if all the Real Thinkers are gone? Who cares if THE SAGE is out of a job? I mean really.... who cares?

Well I do. I'm pissed about it. I'm pissed that the company is becoming another T$R. I'm pissed that so many of YOU are business jerks who love to see "business" in action. I'm pissed that more of the let go employees don't vent their frustration at being let go. I'm pissed at the complacent masses.

Screw Business. Screw Profit.

If you don't understand THAT.... then Screw You too sell out.

 

[Furn_Darkside]

If you don't understand THAT.... then Screw You too sell out.

Aww, somebody needs a hug.

How about this- some of us don't let our emotions dictate our opinions over matters we don't fully understand.



FD

 

[JLXC]

True. I would not want my concience to interfere with my decisions! I mean business and dollars Is God. Why can't I get that through my head? I would hate for emotions and empathy to enter my thoughts. I should accept the capitalistic evil of making people into numbers. It's only business right?



Thanks for making my point.

 

[Levekius]

Yeah, it's a real shame that D&D is more popular than ever, that we have a single OS for games now (d20), that we've got our pick of a dozen extremely talented 3rd-party publishers who put out imaginative products.

A dozen? Who? What? Where? There's a handful of *consistent* publishers out there.

It's a shame that the rules were constantly updated and streamlined, that we were given pages and pages of official errata and a definitive FAQ. It's a shame that the RPGA became free. It's a shame that Dragon and Dungeon are now free to truly become a journal for the RPG industry, instead of just an outlet/advertisement for WotC products.

Let's see what the new Dragon and Dungeon will look like before singing their praise. I think having official outlets to the game was actually a strength of the game. I do agree with you that less WotC product pimping would have been good, though. As for pages and pages of errata, on planet earth, this is considered *bad*. I'm glad that from wherever you are coming from, books full of gaffes are considered a good thing.

Yeah, what a shame. I wish it was like the good old days, when TSR--and *only* T$R--released D&D products and the vast majority of those products sucked.

As opposed to being flooded by numerous 3rd party offerings, the majority of which suck just as much and sometimes even more. In effect, we have even more crap than we used to, the ratio of good to sucky product has about stayed the same, and more importantly, what little good stuff is out there doesn't gel well together.

I like what D20 has to offer, but companies should work together and try and avoid the numerous overlaps that exist currently. Similar feats, similar prestige classes. It's getting annoying.

Or when you couldn't easily switch game systems, and a D&D player had to learn a whole new set of mechanics if he wanted to play Call of Cthulhu, and another set of mechanics if he wanted to play Vampire.

Is there a Vampire D20 somewhere?

I wish D&D was run by a bunch of gaming nerds, not business-savvy people. That way, we'd see slipped production schedules, sloppy layout and design, terrible editing, rules-creep, poor retail relations, and terrible public relations.

You mean, slipped production schedule like the fabulous Master Tools a product that was late by *years*, not months or weeks, which later became the sucky E-Tools that retail at a way too high price and is 100% junk?

And sloppy layout... I certainly don't think a professional worthy of that name would have put out the Monster manual as is. It is embarassingly amateurish.

Terrible editing, rules-creep... you've got a short memory. You've been babbling about (I quote) "pages and pages of official errata and a definitive FAQ". Yup. A real work of art. Most WotC's products are filled with errors. The pile of erratas is amusing.

And I wish Skip, Bruce, Stan!, and those other guys were still working for a company that stifled their creativity, instead of being set free to pursue their dreams and release innovative new content.

You bet, I can't wait to see more idiotic Sage rulings. With a bit of luck, maybe "Skip" will release another Deities & Demigods. The last one with his name on it is a real gem. Nostalgia is great. But in the real world, many of the latest offerings signed Skip Williams have sucked.

BTW, you make it sound like Skip, Bruce and Stan *weren't* free to pursue their dreams before the layoffs. Newsflash: this is America we're talking about. Nobody was pointing a gun on their head and forcing them to stay. If they had dreams of innovative new content, they could always quit their jobs. My guess is, they're not happy about being layed off. That's the cold, harsh reality.

 

[Dire_Groundhog]

ENWORLD CAUSES LAYOFFS

Seeing as how the WOTC product line up is no longer featured on the right side of the news page, it seems obvious that this has affected sales and is the cause of the layoffs.

 

[Zaruthustran]

Re: Re: Zaruthustran's Comments

My earlier comments were not directed at the state of D&D, but more at the state of WotC. Unfortunately, 3rd party publishers, even with the rise of numerous d20 companies, don't sell anywhere NEAR as many books as WotC. Many people refuse to play with 3rd party supplements because they are not "core products." So it is a simple matter to see that d20 products written by Skip, Monte, Jeff, Stan!, and all the others who have left in the last couple of years will not get even half the circulation they would get if published by WotC.

I am also a fan of the Forgotten Realms. Jeff Grubb was one of the driving forces behind the Realms, particularly during 2nd edition. Without him and some of the other talented game developers, the new 3E realms products are likely to be of much poorer quality than before. And sure, they could still freelance, and sure, the new designers could be quite talented as well. We won't know until it happens.

I applaud the work that the d20 community has done. I know that there is some very fine work being put out by these companies. However, that doesn't stop me from lamenting over the wreck Hasbro seems to be making of the Dungeons & Dragons game that I have enjoyed for 2/3 of my lifetime. AS I said earlier, I don't worry that D&D is dying. I'm more afraid it's enslaved under a cruel master.

OK, that was a bit melodramatic annd silly. But you get my point.

Not silly at all, and I get your point, if your point is that you think the departure of these folks will decrease the quality/number of official D&D products. And that D&D is enslaved under a cruel master.

But still, even with these folks gone the number of official D&D products does not have to decrease. WotC could build and release new official material using freelance labor. Bonus for WotC: after the book is done, it doesn't have to continue paying the freelancer's salary.

-z

PS: I, like you, don't use/am not interested in non-core products. Not my cup of tea, since for me one of the main joys of D&D is designing new rules, feats, adventures, and settings.