Level Up (A5E) more nuanced stronghold questions

[W'rkncacnter]

Sidebar on AG p. 362

So... If you separate your Laboratory and the Guildhouse you got two strongholds but can only gain the benefits of one of them.
If you combine the two (technically you'd have to have built the larger guildhouse first before putting the smaller laboratory in it but I'd allow building the new stronghold as a larger expansion for the same cost) you'd get all the benefits of both strongholds BUT since this technically is a Guildhouse when you get the stat bonus you'd only get the wis (or cha) bonus.
RAW: "The only increase to an ability score you gain is from the first stronghold that grants this benefit.
Since the lab 6 is "the first stronghold that grants this benefit" you'd add 2 to Int (and raise the maximum Int by 2) and still keep the +1 Wis from the guildhouse.

To get both the lab benefits and the guildhouse benefits (sans ability bonus see above) you'd have to nestle the two building types within each other and effectively paying again for the smaller parts.

Quick calculation:
Step 1: Lab 2 = 1001(minumum grade 2)*2(luxurious) = 2002gp
Step 2: Guildhouse 3 = 5001(minimum grade 2)*2(luxirious - has to be the same as lab) = +10002
Step 3: Lab 5 = 50001(minimum grade 6)*2 = 100002 gp
For a total of: 112006gp

Meaning, you payed 12004gp more for the +1 Wis from the Guildhouse and a 15% discount on mundane goods and services.

i...didn't notice that. that's goofy as hell, especially considering they're intended to be an alternative to magic items, but good to know.

 

[Selganor]

yeah I realized I wrote that and amended that. still, you can buy one for each stat someone wants and pass it to each person that needs it and get +1 to anything for everyone.

How?

Let's take a party with 3 characters buying the cheapest strongholds: House (Cha), Temple (Wis) and Encampment (Con) costing 2500.5gp for the buildings and 2750gp for the rural one.

Adept gets the temple (and +1 Wis)
Bard gets the house (and +1 Cha)
Berserker gets the encampment (and +1 Con)

Now they try to switch strongholds, BUT... since their first stronghold already granted them a +1 to an ability score no other stronghold of grade 3 will do so ("The only increase to an ability score you gain is from the first stronghold that grants this benefit.")
If they upgrade the strongholds (whether they switch strongholds or not) then the first stronghold they got at Grade 6 will give them +2 to the appropriate ability (and raising the maximum by 2 as well)

Granted... if they all just want the ability score improvement one stronghold provides (like fighter, berserker might both want a +1 Str from a castle or workshop) then they just have to buy this once to get the ability bonus but if they both want the other benefits they might have to both get a stronghold.

But once they got the +1 Str from a stronghold regarding ability scores they can only get another +2 from a Grade 6 stronghold (the same or another).

 

[musashi_san]

yeah that's what I was trying to say, but poorly.
everyone gets a +1 to something for the price of the min stronghold of that ability one time. just the one time for one ability, but still.
seems overpowered.

e.g.

• sorc buys shop for 3k, +1 cha
• gives to adept, gets +1 wis
• gives to cleric, gets +1 wis
• gives to rogue, gets +1 cha (face skills presumably)
• fighter buys training hall for 3k, +1 con
• gives to Marshall +1 con

so 6k, +1 to one thing each, 1k/ASI. yes you don't get the extra stuff, you can buy strongholds for that separately. presumably one of the party members would keep one permanently and continue to improve it, or maybe the party pools resources to upgrade it to income generating and splits the proceeds?

Anyway, I would not allow giving in this way within the party, probably?

At least there's no stronghold that grants dex.

 

[lichmaster]

I may be corrected, but I don't think that you'd keep the ASI if you give the stronghold to another character.
Strongholds are just "materialized" feats, in the end: no stronghold, no goodies

 

[musashi_san]

this is totally not argumentative, just trying to understand RAI. it says elsewhere:

Stronghold Ability Score Increase. The only increase to an ability score you gain is from the first stronghold that grants this benefit. Changing your permanent stronghold or purchasing sub-strongholds does not alter your ability scores.

which, I take to mean, unlike the other more feat-like benefits, giving away a stronghold does not remove an ASI. but it may be the intent that it does. which just feels wrong in a way (losing ability points), but the other way seems broken, so you are probably right.

 

[Morrus]

I may be corrected, but I don't think that you'd keep the ASI if you give the stronghold to another character.
Strongholds are just "materialized" feats, in the end: no stronghold, no goodies

Yep. They’re feats. No stronghold, no feat.

 

[musashi_san]

thanks for the answers/clarification!

 

[lichmaster]

this is totally not argumentative, just trying to understand RAI. it says elsewhere:

Stronghold Ability Score Increase. The only increase to an ability score you gain is from the first stronghold that grants this benefit. Changing your permanent stronghold or purchasing sub-strongholds does not alter your ability scores.

which, I take to mean, unlike the other more feat-like benefits, giving away a stronghold does not remove an ASI. but it may be the intent that it does. which just feels wrong in a way (losing ability points), but the other way seems broken, so you are probably right.

I think the part you put in italics means that if you change your stronghold from castle to temple and you got an ASI from the castle, you don't change it to the ASI of the temple. It doesn't mean that you can sell the castle, or give it to someone else, and still keep the ASI.