More Players = More Monsters or Tougher Monsters?

[interwyrm]

The biggest drawback to using "more monsters" rather than "tougher monsters" is that large combats can take a lot longer -- not just more NPCs to have actions, but on a cluttered battlefield the players might take more time pondering the best course of action, how to best position themselves to avoid AOOs or gettting flanked, figuring out which targets are the priority for their particular PC to attack, etc. That may not be true in your group, though.

This was my concern reading through the posts and I'm surprised nobody mentioned it sooner. Combat can take a very long time, especially if there are many opponents.

If you do choose tougher monsters, avoid ones with save or die, or no save and die (blasphemy) effects. Also, have tougher intelligent monsters run away. The pc's have no idea how many hp an opponent has. They'll think they were close to beating it if it runs away.

I would suggest if you go for more monsters, split it up between combats. The waves suggestion earlier was a good one. Also, consider night attacks (more pc's should be on guard). Traps as challenges might be a good idea too, as they don't involve a whole lot of actions on everyone's part.

 

[J-Buzz]

I did a couple of things.

1. Added more monsters, which did not really make a big difference. At the lower levels it was a tougher encounter because it did give the monsters a couple more chances to hit. That quickly went away once the pc's got a couple hit die under their belt.

2. Still added a couple more monsters, but added a hit die to their hit points. This worked pretty well. As it confused the players, and added some level of suspense. "Hey my last 10 dmg killed the orc, why isn't this one dropping." I think this worked the best but I was unable to try it out at higher levels.

3. Added Leveled monsters to the fray... This worked well also, but was not consistent. Sometimes the encounter seemed balanced, other times it was almost a TPK. I think with a little more thought this would work well. Basically add a "leader" to each encounter.

4. Left the encounter intact, but added 1 higher CR monster. 4 orcs and an ogre. This worked well also and was my 2nd best choice for beefing up encounters. You do have to save this untill the players have some levels under their belt.

All these really go out the window when you get to the higher level monsters. So what think would work best and is easy on the fly is to add a hit die. If the party is slaughtering your golem add 2 more hit die and give him another round or 2 of attacks. At higher levels if you add monsters the characters get xp to fast. So if you do add monsters add a ton of low level monsters to keep the chars busy while the bbeg attacks.

 

[schporto]

Currently I'm running a party of 6 or 7 (1 person on a break) through RtToEE. I haven't done much to modify things. And they're marching through right now and are about 8th level. Sometime around when they're 9th level and the adventure suggests they be 10th things will start tilting in the modules favor (saves become tougher etc).
I am making a slight adjustment right now. I'm making the monsters tougher. Not by advancing HD or levels or anything. I'm generally making them all have a 12 or 14 base stat instead of the normal 10 or 11. That's making the monsters more difficult but only slightly. It means the beasties will take more then 1 attack from the raging, goliath barbarian.
-cpd

 

[FEADIN]

More monster at low levels (1-4), a slightly tougher one with an added monster of a lower CR in the middle levels (5-9), after that it depends greatly of the composition of the party but you can keep the combined tougher and lower.

 

[werk]

All of the above

I use the 'cookie cutter' approach that you described and tweak it.

If you are supposed to have 4 1st level chars and you have 6 1st level chars, then you are effectively EL 1.5 or 6/4.

So what will bump a EL 1 encounter to 1.5? All of the above.

I tend to throw in an extra bad guy, or two or more if they are wimpy.
I also like to add HD levels to monsters or switch from a warrior to fighter. That group of 6 kobolds just got a lot tougher with a cleric leading them and a sorcerer hiding in back.
I also like to adjust the pacing as needed, faster encounters/slower encounters.

So the moral on this post is: do whatever it takes, which generally means...everything.

 

[Christian]

I'm a big fan of advancing monsters by adding hit dice. This increases the ability of the creature to stand up to the damage a larger group can dish out without drastically increasing its ability to take out a PC with one lucky roll ...

 

[Coredump]

Interesting opinions, I should've asked for a poll.

Seems like more monsters wins hands down, whatever the level.

Well then, let me dissent.

I am running a campaign currently that has 7-8 players, and I have found that the answer depends on how powerful the monsters are.

For example, lets say your group of 8 5th level characters is going to have an encounter.

If the encounter is going to be a bunch of CR 2-3 creatures, making more of them will not be much of a difference. So instead, toughen them up. I usually just up their HP, but you can add a HD, or use all CR 3 monsters.

If the encounter is going to be a single CR 6 creature, making him tougher could easily end up in a TPK, or at least many dead. So add a creature, either another CR 6, or maybe 2 CR 4-5, or somesuch.

So, if you already have multiple bad guys, make them tougher. If you already have a tough bad guy, make him multiple.

The problem with large PC groups, is they are humpty dumpty with a machine gun. So to make a single creature that can last more than 3-4 rounds (so 20-40 attacks), he will be so tough that he will kill one character a round.

OTOH, the reverse can happen if you put too many monsters in at once. So I will also provide more monsters, but they come as reinforcements.

 

[Shadowslayer]

I'd go with what Patryn of Elvenshae said. Send them in waves until you get an idea of what they can handle.

Bear in mind as well that the dice roll funny for everyone sometimes. Not long ago I had a 1st level party of 5 get their butts handed to them by 4 kobolds.

Stuff happens.

 

[Goolpsy]

Well.. it also depend on how you play your monsters.. and how the players play their combats.
I've seen 3-4 players take down CR 6 monsters(well played ones) with ease... i had also seen 6 players loosing a battle to a monster in an encounter CR -2

Just play the encounters smart.. with 8 players.. just have battles at your monsters benefit... maybe have a monster with a CR +1... and some minor ones

Players are alot tougher than they look and seem.. but i don't know.. try to run multiple encounters.. every damage they take, every spell they cast makes it harder for them in the next battles

which reminds me of our sudden death a few days ago after going through a whole cave with a CR 2 higher than our level.. (without sleeping).. damn last encounter.. slaughtered us all (5 players) you're pretty beat up after +13 encounters in a row

 

[Saeviomagy]

More monsters is the best rule in general.

There are situations where more monsters is a bad idea though. Specifically for monsters with any form of area attack.

This is because doubling the amount of foes that such a creature faces is already doubling the damage from it's attack.

Doubling the number of monsters is quadrupling the damage.

Against a 6th level party, one attack that hits all of them for 10d6 will injure them.

Two attacks that hit all of them will kill the whole lot, regardless of how many characters.


So - against these foes I'd suggest increasing the hitpoints of the monster instead.