Most frustrating quirk of 5E?

[Mepher]

Since this has turned into a sort-of "what don't I like" I am following in that spirit:

• Every race gets only bonuses, no penalties. (Why the heck aren't small races penalized in Strength??? Not even a -1 for crying out loud...)
• Too many pointless subraces. If you want to play a "moonlake wild elf" then just role-play one. The races focus too much on what you get instead of who you are.
• Crazy monster-like PC races (yeah, Dragonborn and Tiefling, BOO! HISS!), even the long-entrenched Half-Orc.
• Darkvision.
• The standard ability score set.
• The point-buy system for ability scores.
• The fact that every class requires the same XP for their level advancement.
• Alignment is basically pointless now since there are no alignment restrictions on class.
• Max HP at first level.
• Too many spell-like or magical abilities for basically every class.
• Most archetypes.
• Bards. (Just play a thief/mage with a lute if you want...)
• Cantrips and their unlimited use.
• Same base attack bonus for every class.
• Only two weapon group proficiencies. (I can understand simplifying them, but I would prefer groups (Swords, Pole-arms, Axes, etc.) in some manner.)
• Monk increased movement (Why has this never died? What possible reason is there for it?)
• Super simple generic "martial arts".
• Three different types of "arcane" casters.
• Inspiration.
• Backgrounds. (Basically useless unless you just can't think of something yourself.)
• Over-simplified Weapons/Armor system.
• Multiclass rules. (WAY too easy and prone to class dipping.)
• Too much ASI, since more interest seems to be in feats anyway.
• Over-simplified encumbrance system.
• Dexterity even more vital to several aspects of game mechanics.
• Charisma now so important to many classes that Intelligence seems to be the new dump stat.
• 6-second rounds.
• Definitions of Dim Light and Darkness.
• Short Rest/Long Rest and associated abilities.
• Too many Hit Points for everything.
• Bounded Accuracy.
• Over-simplied Initiative.
• Death Saves.
• Removing Negative Hit Points and Dying at -10 or whatever you choose to use.
• Alphabetical listing of spells instead of by class and level.
• Changes in many spells (e.g. Enlarge... plus 1d4 damage? ARE YOU KIDDING ME?!?)
• General format of DMG. (Why waste so much space on world-building and fluff?)
• Too much fluff in many of the books, like they couldn't think of enough useful content but needed to fill the space.
• Lack of Number Appearing in Monster Stat Blocks.
• Only 4 ages for Dragons.
• and on and on and on...

Despite this list, there ARE some things I like, and I am really trying to get past my 1E/2E bias (I even just bought three more 5E books). I know a lot of players love 5E more than prior editions and I am honestly willing to give it a shot before I abandon it.

Are you my long lost twin? Your list is pretty much the same as mine. I am running a 5E campaign and we are having a great time but that is 100% because it's the heaviest roleplaying I have ever incorporated into a campaign, it has nothing to do with the system. Honestly I think the system itself is hurting my games at times because everything has become too easy. Anytime dice are rolled someone has some skill, cantrip, or spell that somehow gives them an additions 1d4 or better to their roll and failure is the exception, not the norm. I own the PHB, DMG, MM, XGTE, MTOF, SCAG, COS, POA, SKT, ROD, WDH, WDOTMM, as well as Tome of Beasts, Creature Codex, Ultimate Bestiary: Revenge of the Horde, a couple DM Screens, all of the Spell decks, both sets of Monster decks, a humble bundle with a crap-ton of adventures from Frog God Games, too much DMSGuild stuff that I care to admit, and a lot more. I have a problem, when I get into a game I go in hard. It's the only think that keeps me going on this system. At some point I will probably just return to 1E/2E since I have twice as much material already and I can stop spending. It's sad though that the only thing truly binding me to 5E is the recent money spent. The thing is, in spite of it's downfalls we are still having fun with our campaign. We'll see where it goes.

 

[WhosDaDungeonMaster]

Are you my long lost twin? Your list is pretty much the same as mine. I am running a 5E campaign and we are having a great time but that is 100% because it's the heaviest roleplaying I have ever incorporated into a campaign, it has nothing to do with the system. Honestly I think the system itself is hurting my games at times because everything has become too easy. Anytime dice are rolled someone has some skill, cantrip, or spell that somehow gives them an additions 1d4 or better to their roll and failure is the exception, not the norm. I own the PHB, DMG, MM, XGTE, MTOF, SCAG, COS, POA, SKT, ROD, WDH, WDOTMM, as well as Tome of Beasts, Creature Codex, Ultimate Bestiary: Revenge of the Horde, a couple DM Screens, all of the Spell decks, both sets of Monster decks, a humble bundle with a crap-ton of adventures from Frog God Games, too much DMSGuild stuff that I care to admit, and a lot more. I have a problem, when I get into a game I go in hard. It's the only think that keeps me going on this system. At some point I will probably just return to 1E/2E since I have twice as much material already and I can stop spending. It's sad though that the only thing truly binding me to 5E is the recent money spent. The thing is, in spite of it's downfalls we are still having fun with our campaign. We'll see where it goes.

Wow, and I thought my recent purchase of three more books beyond the core books was risky!

I am ONLY doing 5E because the players are all new and have been looking at it before we met. They wanted to try it, so I decided to give it a chance and invest in case I like it. Oddly, I found more role-playing in my other games, but I credit that to newbies as players and not the system.

 

[SkidAce]

... Oddly, I found more role-playing in my other games, but I credit that to newbies as players and not the system.

For us, we think its the players and the system. 5e's style enhances rp.

It actually reminds me of the 1st/2nd days and games, with modern more elegant mechanics that have been refined from newer games and things learned over the years.

It has some issues, but so did all the other editions.

So for me, it comes down to the OP's question, what are the quirks, cause we have no major problems.

(if you didnt see my post, the quirk is the number 3 for attunement).

 

[Blue]

The VSM requirements for spellcasting are a quirk from the early days that just won't die.

There are plenty of reasons for material component besides just expensive ones:

Primarily, they allow mages to be disarmed the same way that weapon wielders can be disarmed in order to allow a whole category of narrative - capture, escape, imprisonment - anything where you need to be crafty.

I remember having my wizard kidnapped in a city and was being taken away in a cart. I was able to escape my restrains by being clever and with a hidden item, get off the cart using verbal spells, spend an action to get both sand (for sleep for the low level guards) and a smooth rock (for some other spell) as components to cast.

It's also useful to specify what spells can be cast silently (no V), important information for PCs who want to do something unnoticed either in sneaky or potentially even a social situation.

That components are quirky in terms of execution in 5e I'll give you, and may want to massage that. But the concept that it only exists as a holdover from earlier editions I think it incorrect so I wouldn't want to get rid of it.

 

[GlassJaw]

I haven't read through the whole thread but it's definitely the weapon and armor chart for me, especially weapons. Seems like that is a common complaint.

There isn't enough to differentiate between the weapons. The choice is almost completely removed and meaningless. There absolutely needs to be something else to make it a more meaningful choice, like a weapon system halfway between 3E and 5E.

I've been working on some homebrew design that modifies the crit range and damage, sort of a hybrid between 3E and 5E. I should finish it at some point...

That's certainly the main thing for me. I have issues with some classes and balance, but who doesn't? I also find the spell organization frustrating.

Oh, I would probably add the vagueness between Perception and Investigation. I'm ok with the different skills but I wish there was a better explanation on how they are used. Or at least some examples that illustrate what the developers intended.

Otherwise I'm generally ok with most of 5E. It checks pretty much all the boxes and hits the sweet spot between crunch and narrative play for me.

 

[Selvarin]

Since this has turned into a sort-of "what don't I like" I am following in that spirit:

• Every race gets only bonuses, no penalties. (Why the heck aren't small races penalized in Strength??? Not even a -1 for crying out loud...)
• Too many pointless subraces. If you want to play a "moonlake wild elf" then just role-play one. The races focus too much on what you get instead of who you are.
• Crazy monster-like PC races (yeah, Dragonborn and Tiefling, BOO! HISS!), even the long-entrenched Half-Orc.
• Darkvision.
• The standard ability score set.
• The point-buy system for ability scores.
• The fact that every class requires the same XP for their level advancement.
• Alignment is basically pointless now since there are no alignment restrictions on class.
• Max HP at first level.
• Too many spell-like or magical abilities for basically every class.
• Most archetypes.
• Bards. (Just play a thief/mage with a lute if you want...)
• Cantrips and their unlimited use.
• Same base attack bonus for every class.
• Only two weapon group proficiencies. (I can understand simplifying them, but I would prefer groups (Swords, Pole-arms, Axes, etc.) in some manner.)
• Monk increased movement (Why has this never died? What possible reason is there for it?)
• Super simple generic "martial arts".
• Three different types of "arcane" casters.
• Inspiration.
• Backgrounds. (Basically useless unless you just can't think of something yourself.)
• Over-simplified Weapons/Armor system.
• Multiclass rules. (WAY too easy and prone to class dipping.)
• Too much ASI, since more interest seems to be in feats anyway.
• Over-simplified encumbrance system.
• Dexterity even more vital to several aspects of game mechanics.
• Charisma now so important to many classes that Intelligence seems to be the new dump stat.
• 6-second rounds.
• Definitions of Dim Light and Darkness.
• Short Rest/Long Rest and associated abilities.
• Too many Hit Points for everything.
• Bounded Accuracy.
• Over-simplied Initiative.
• Death Saves.
• Removing Negative Hit Points and Dying at -10 or whatever you choose to use.
• Alphabetical listing of spells instead of by class and level.
• Changes in many spells (e.g. Enlarge... plus 1d4 damage? ARE YOU KIDDING ME?!?)
• General format of DMG. (Why waste so much space on world-building and fluff?)
• Too much fluff in many of the books, like they couldn't think of enough useful content but needed to fill the space.
• Lack of Number Appearing in Monster Stat Blocks.
• Only 4 ages for Dragons.
• and on and on and on...

Despite this list, there ARE some things I like, and I am really trying to get past my 1E/2E bias (I even just bought three more 5E books). I know a lot of players love 5E more than prior editions and I am honestly willing to give it a shot before I abandon it.

1) Every race gets bonuses, no penalties. Yes, I can understand. It's a bit of a reaction to 3rd Edition where, if you got a +2 to a physical ability the designers would then assign a corresponding penalty (and then some) to offset it. Even if the race didn't really have that discernible deficiency to begin with. I could see where there's some sort of penalty but way back when I saw some harsh ones assigned. It made no sense. And yes, I could see where penalties to the smaller PC races would make sense.

2) I like subraces, so...

3) I like the other races as options even if I don't particularly care for Dragonborn. So whatever works in your campaign...works.

4) I roll 4d6 per stat, toss out the worst roll, and move on. Don't need to do anything more. Point buys, etc., meh.

5) Alignment can still be good for determining a general outlook. And I see nothing wrong with a standard XP table. So agree to disagree.

6) Max hit points--so? I'd rather they start out at their best at 1st level. They can roll a 1 at 2nd level later, whatever.

7) Full healing after a long rest. Hmm. A simple mechanic, and easily fixed. Regain 1/4 of total HP per short rest, or 1/2 per long rest (1/day). So if someone was laid-out on Day 1 they'd need to be on the cot or in bed getting tended-to until Day 3.

8) Multiclass rules--i disagree. They work well enough. So what if they aren't perfect? Any levels spent on another class means they won't get the perks they'd normally get at higher levels from being single classed.

9) Bards. Still not quite my cup of tea but it works well enough. Not all roguish types need be thieves.

10) I don't like the general format of the PHB. The good parts regarding character creation are spread out just enough to where all the pertinent details had to be extracted and condensed for my own personal use.

The rest? Meh. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[Azzy]

• Too many pointless subraces. If you want to play a "moonlake wild elf" then just role-play one. The races focus too much on what you get instead of who you are.

• 
  
  This isn't even a 5e thing... Elves in 1e: High, Grey, Wood, Wild (Grugach), Dark (Drow), Sea (?). And then there's 2e, which takes that expands on it, and then adds setting-specific variants. And that's just elves.
  
  

  [*]Crazy monster-like PC races (yeah, Dragonborn and Tiefling, BOO! HISS!), even the long-entrenched Half-Orc.

  
  Again, nothing new to 5e. Drow in 1e, 2e got crazy.
  
  

  [*]The point-buy system for ability scores.

  
  This is purely optional, why does it bug you if you don't have to use it?
  
  

  [*]The fact that every class requires the same XP for their level advancement.

  
  To me this is a feature. I though the different level advancement was unnecessary.
  
  

  [*]Max HP at first level.

  
  Actuall, I think this is great.
  
  

  [*]Bards. (Just play a thief/mage with a lute if you want...)

  
  Again, this isn't just a 5e thing.
  
  

  [*]6-second rounds.

  
  IMO, this is actually an improvement.
  
  

  [*]Alphabetical listing of spells instead of by class and level.

  
  FIGHT ME!
  
  

  [*]General format of DMG. (Why waste so much space on world-building and fluff?)

  
  Because new DMs need this stuff.
  
  

  [*]Too much fluff in many of the books, like they couldn't think of enough useful content but needed to fill the space.

  
  Again, this is more helpful to new players.
  
  

  [*]Lack of Number Appearing in Monster Stat Blocks.

  
  That and Climate/Environment.
  
  

  [*]Only 4 ages for Dragons.

  
  Yeah, but how many of the 8-12 actually got used with any regularity?

 

[WhosDaDungeonMaster]

Never said many of my complaints about 5E didn't have similar ones in 1E and 2E. Eventually, I house-ruled the changes to fix the issues as I saw them in earlier editions, and will do the same with 5E I am sure eventually. I don't expect many people at all to agree with a lot of the list, so please don't bother arguing against my points since this is all a matter of preference and opinion anyway.

 

[Blue]

There isn't enough to differentiate between the weapons. The choice is almost completely removed and meaningless. There absolutely needs to be something else to make it a more meaningful choice, like a weapon system halfway between 3E and 5E.

Wow, I have the exact opposite complaint with the same result. There are a few weapons that edge out all of the others so no one plays with the suboptimal weapons. So the choice is completely removed unless you want to intentionally gimp yourself.

 

[Blue]

I have to admit, a lot of your list confuses me [MENTION=6976296]James Grover[/MENTION]. Because so much of it just cutting out choices. You don't have to use those choices personally, so it's coming across that when you are a player (because a DM could disallow them) you are upset that others have access to these choices.

Why does it bother you that point buy is as valid an option as 4d6 drop the lowest? Why does others having access to classes/subclasses, races/subraces frustrate you as long as they are balanced?

It's like someone saying "we don't need four ages of dragons, just one dragon of each type like the other monsters. Who the heck needs 40 variations on dragons, use that space in the MM for something else."