Most frustrating quirk of 5E?

[Mouseferatu]

It doesn't have to be all that complicated to do so - add hit locations / divide up hit points per location and maybe determine certain trip points for damage that would result in additional penalties, checks to see if you go into shock or start bleeding out, etc.

You and I have very different definitions of "all that complicated."

 

[3catcircus]

You and I have very different definitions of "all that complicated."

Not necessarily. The result on a d20 to hit roll can easily double as a hit location roll, for example. One could arbitrarily determine what % of overall hit points would be assigned to each hit location (call it head, torso, and each limb - no need to go to the nth degree). The hard part would be in determining what percentage of hit points at each location results in what penalties. I'd rework critical hits so that they result in a chance for bleeding out, going into shock (which would require a Con check to shake off), etc.

I *really* loved Twilight:2013's system which inspired me to think about how to use similar concepts for 5e. That system calculated a "base" hit points per each hit location and then had multiples of those base hit points to define when you suffered more serious wounds. Rather than subtracting the damage from hit points until you hit zero, the hit points just acted as cues for wound levels. Those wound levels determined penalties and special effects. Sounds complicated, but since all of the hit point multiples where listed on your character sheet, all you had to do was compare damage received at that location to the hit points. "Got shot in the torso for 12 points. That exceeds your moderate wound threshold for the torso. -2 penalty on all physical actions, perform a check to see if you go into shock - fail the check by enough and you start bleeding out." They had four different wound levels with an optional rule for insta-kills to simulate head shots, being blown up by an IED, etc.

It would require some work to tailor such concepts to a fantasy or sci-fi game, but I imagine it could be done (I saw someone had adapted the rules for use in their Firefly game). Its a shame that TW:2013 went out of print since the core mechanics were supposed to be tailored for use with fantasy/sci-fi settings and released as a stand-alone system.

 

[Maxperson]

It's not really a house rule to say "Guys, you can't swing a hammer continuously for a week." There aren't any mechanics involved in that statement. If you came up with a system for calculating how long you could swing a hammer, and applying exhaustion after certain thresholds, that would be a house rule.

Incidentally, if we're talking rules, casting spells is a strenuous activity - it's on the list of activities that can interrupt a long rest. So we can presume that it is at least as tiring as physical exertion.

It can't be arbitrary, though. If you're going to limit the amount of fighting time somehow, there needs to be a rule for it or it can be unfair to the players.

 

[Maxperson]

I agree with you, I guess they are thinking the punch is directly specifically at one target, so is more "dangerous".

Maybe you're at the "edge" of the fireball.

/shrugs.

It's not the fireball, though. You can substitute in a 35 point non-crit paladin smite for the same 1 failed death save.

 

[Oofta]

Not necessarily. The result on a d20 to hit roll can easily double as a hit location roll, for example. One could arbitrarily determine what % of overall hit points would be assigned to each hit location (call it head, torso, and each limb - no need to go to the nth degree). The hard part would be in determining what percentage of hit points at each location results in what penalties. I'd rework critical hits so that they result in a chance for bleeding out, going into shock (which would require a Con check to shake off), etc.

I *really* loved Twilight:2013's system which inspired me to think about how to use similar concepts for 5e. That system calculated a "base" hit points per each hit location and then had multiples of those base hit points to define when you suffered more serious wounds. Rather than subtracting the damage from hit points until you hit zero, the hit points just acted as cues for wound levels. Those wound levels determined penalties and special effects. Sounds complicated, but since all of the hit point multiples where listed on your character sheet, all you had to do was compare damage received at that location to the hit points. "Got shot in the torso for 12 points. That exceeds your moderate wound threshold for the torso. -2 penalty on all physical actions, perform a check to see if you go into shock - fail the check by enough and you start bleeding out." They had four different wound levels with an optional rule for insta-kills to simulate head shots, being blown up by an IED, etc.

It would require some work to tailor such concepts to a fantasy or sci-fi game, but I imagine it could be done (I saw someone had adapted the rules for use in their Firefly game). Its a shame that TW:2013 went out of print since the core mechanics were supposed to be tailored for use with fantasy/sci-fi settings and released as a stand-alone system.

No game can be a perfect fit for everyone. While your ideas are interesting, I'd probably hate a game that had that kind of complication. Maybe as an optional rule I could ignore it would be okay, but otherwise I accept D&D for what it is. Simplifications and all.

Ultimately I just don't see what it would add to the game. More realism? Well then you should be rolling for infection after the battle which historically killed more people than immediate wounds. Well, that and very few people would survive the sheer number of combats PCs face on a regular basis. D&D may use action-movie logic when it comes to injuries, but I think that's part of it's appeal.

 

[Yardiff]

The game system I think did skills better them most was Roll Master. It was level and class and skill based system.

 

[Azzy]

Where to begin. Well - I'm kinda annoyed by *most* of the D&D rules as they've progressed over the editions, so 5e isn't unique in that regard. I think the biggest quirk is that they haven't figured out how to provide a set of rules that consistently applies damage and healing across a broad spectrum of effects. Everything is *still* "I magic missile him and do x points of damage. The BBEG continues merrily along even though he is down to 3 hit points. The fighter attacks with his sword and does 4 points of damage and now the BBEG suddenly collapses. Fight over."

Yes, it is fantasy, but I want a consistent set of rules options beyond the normal rules that would clearly distinguish how different attacks and damage types would affect an opponent in such a fashion that their combat effectiveness (and even their willingness to continue in battle instead of fleeing) would be "realistically" impacted, if the campaign is a low magic or gritty setting. In such situations, a guy who gets blasted by a fireball oughta be lights out most of the time due to going into shock almost instantaneously. A guy getting sliced across the leg that is more than a superficial wound ought to have a chance of bleeding out from the femoral artery or have a chance of being hobbled (and would definitely have his mobility impacted), and a guy bashed in the skull with a mace ought to have a chance of being knocked senseless.

It doesn't have to be all that complicated to do so - add hit locations / divide up hit points per location and maybe determine certain trip points for damage that would result in additional penalties, checks to see if you go into shock or start bleeding out, etc.

Runequest figured this out to a certain degree decades ago, and the 2013 edition of Twilight:2000 had a very nice system (albeit geared primarily towards combat involving firearms).

I think that the lack of effect from becoming increasingly wounded in D&D is something that most people take issue with (I know I joke about it). Many other games have some sort of damage track that imposes penalties as a character enters increasing categories of wounded. Handled poorly, this becomes the dreaded "death spiral" that raises ire amongst some players. A simplified version would work well as an option for D&D.

Hit locations are another subject. The problem with this, is that it adds more bookkeeping because there's a lot more to keep track of (says the GM running a game with hit locations). This doesn't really jibe with the beer and pretzles TTRPG that of either the early or current version of D&D. Then there's needing a random chart for different monsters (beholders, dragons, ropers, driders, etc.). Even tiefling PCs (tails!) would need modified random location charts. While D&D could be modded to account for hit locations, I don't see it as terribly practical.

 

[Mouseferatu]

Not necessarily. [snip]

Except what you're describing is still leaps and bounds more complicated/more bookkeeping than I want to deal with.

 

[Mouseferatu]

It can't be arbitrary, though. If you're going to limit the amount of fighting time somehow, there needs to be a rule for it or it can be unfair to the players.

Nah. Just saying "You can't do it indefinitely" is more than sufficient, unless you're planning to actually have a situation that requires the characters to fight for scores or hundreds of rounds in a row. In which case, you're already outside the expected bounds of the system.

Seriously, if you have a DM you trust, very little of this stuff needs to be codified, and if you don't have a DM you trust, you're going to run into problems long before these edge cases come into play.

 

[5ekyu]

Nah. Just saying "You can't do it indefinitely" is more than sufficient, unless you're planning to actually have a situation that requires the characters to fight for scores or hundreds of rounds in a row. In which case, you're already outside the expected bounds of the system.

Seriously, if you have a DM you trust, very little of this stuff needs to be codified, and if you don't have a DM you trust, you're going to run into problems long before these edge cases come into play.

Yes, it needs just as much detail as the detail and circumstances makes matter.

I dont need to knowcif its a limit of 99, 299, 499 1000 7547 or such if they really never use more than 50 in a day.