Mounted Archery Balanced?

[Clint]

2) I think you're mistaken. [snip]

I think I'm mistaken. You're right (Artoomis, Crothian), double thanks.

But my original post should have said: the campaign is levelling off at levels 6th/7th.

The "ambush the archer" tactic works once, but he's in a party of four, and he likes to use this all the time. Won't the player get suspicious if his character is the victim of every assault? I was just seeing if I was doing this correctly (and I wasn't), but it's still a very effective strategy.

What about a house rule? Something like "a horse being controlled to attack can only attack with it's bite"? I just don't picture, in any case, an archer firing at full attack while the horse rears up and 2 hooves and bites.

Or should I just relax?

 

[Christian]

2) I think you're mistaken. The square you start from is unthreatened, but when you move through a creature's threatened area (even with a 5' step) you trigger an AoO regardless. So your diagonal move within the horse's threatened area triggers the AoO.

Ah. This is why you're having such problems with this tactic ...

System Reference Document: Combat Basics
If a combatant's entire move for the round is 5 feet the 5 foot move does not provoke an attack of opportunity.

 

[Clint]

Thanks for all the feedback so far, I just want to nail down other issues before they come up.

Could Warhorse take a 5' step back after their Full Attack actions, preventing the Enemy 5' step and smack Rider option?

 

[Zhure]

Yes, but not against opponents with reach, with missile weapons, with spring attack, tumble or the wherewithal to just suck up a hit and go pound him anyway.

Greg

 

[Skaros]

I think they did a very good job with mounted combat in 3E.

My wife is playing an elven ranger who is shooting for arcane archer, and is also building herself up as a competent mounted combatant.

They seem to have done a very admirable job of allowing for the kind of advantages mounted (trained) opponents have.

Keep in mind that (as has been mentioned) the mount can be killed. Also keep in mind that many many situations will negate the benefit of having training in mounted combat.

Specifically, any encounters underground or within cities negate it. Also, even outdoors, often the terrain prohibits it. The terrain could be too rocky. The forest could be too dense. etc.

-Skaros

 

[gtJormungand]

Thanks for all the feedback so far, I just want to nail down other issues before they come up.

Could Warhorse take a 5' step back after their Full Attack actions, preventing the Enemy 5' step and smack Rider option?

This would work and quite nicely, too.

 

[Artoomis]

I think I'm mistaken. You're right (Artoomis, Crothian), double thanks.

But my original post should have said: the campaign is levelling off at levels 6th/7th.

The "ambush the archer" tactic works once, but he's in a party of four, and he likes to use this all the time. Won't the player get suspicious if his character is the victim of every assault? I was just seeing if I was doing this correctly (and I wasn't), but it's still a very effective strategy.

What about a house rule? Something like "a horse being controlled to attack can only attack with it's bite"? I just don't picture, in any case, an archer firing at full attack while the horse rears up and 2 hooves and bites.

Or should I just relax?

The latter. Just relax.

This tactic is effective in just the right circumstances. He won't do it often when his horses start dying. And they will - in a 6th/7th level campaign ordinary horses used in combat should not last long. Only 30 hp and AC 15 - a d10 (fighter. ranger, whatever) character with a +2 con bonus will have around 57 hp, on average, plus good weapons and armor. The poor horse should not be lasting long at all - it's only CR2, and that's for a reason.

And, by the way, it's Will save is only +2, so pretty much any mental-affecting spell will work. Hold Animal is only 2nd level - the ranger won't be happy the first time his horse is held, then killed outright with a Coup de Grace. Calm Animal is 1st level, Charm Person or Animal is 2nd level You get the idea - the first enemy who knows they are coming will certainly be prepared to take care of the horse. And if they fight any druids, these spells are the type they would likely have prepared all the time.

Of course, as long as the combat situation favors this tactic, he'll use it. More power to him, I say, for being clever and maximizing his strengths.

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

Reach weapons, reach weapons, reach weapons.

Don't worry. At 7th-8th Rider will start to meet foes that can easily kill that horse with a full attack option, or a single blow with power attack and a lucky roll. And you will start seeing Fireballs that will knock that horse unconscious if it fails its saves.

As already pointed out, Cause Fear from a lowly 1st level Orc Shaman is going to take this animal out of combat most of the time.

Horses work fabulously at low levels in open space. That is how it should be.

 

[Galfridus]

Thanks for all the feedback so far, I just want to nail down other issues before they come up.

Could Warhorse take a 5' step back after their Full Attack actions, preventing the Enemy 5' step and smack Rider option?

Sure, but then the enemy is no longer threatened at all, so they could do a move to get around to the flank and attack from there.

Is the mounted archery penalty really only applicable when the horse is moving? I don't have a PHB handy, but it seems that a mount engaged in combat would incur this penalty.

Also, if the character is firing at a target directly in front of the horse, I would probably give the +4 AC bonus for cover as well as the -4 for firing into combat (I know this character ignores the latter penalty, just being complete). You can get around this with a little maneuvering, but at least make the player think about it.

In the long run, I see the character as having a significant advantage that they paid for (with some archery feats, ranks in Ride, etc.).

 

[Artoomis]

Sure, but then the enemy is no longer threatened at all, so they could do a move to get around to the flank and attack from there.

Is the mounted archery penalty really only applicable when the horse is moving? I don't have a PHB handy, but it seems that a mount engaged in combat would incur this penalty.

Also, if the character is firing at a target directly in front of the horse, I would probably give the +4 AC bonus for cover as well as the -4 for firing into combat (I know this character ignores the latter penalty, just being complete). You can get around this with a little maneuvering, but at least make the player think about it.

In the long run, I see the character as having a significant advantage that they paid for (with some archery feats, ranks in Ride, etc.).

Good point about the cover. The horse takes up two squares with the ranger in the back square. I'd say, when the horse is using its hooves to attack at least, the standard "cover" rule should certainly apply for firing directly ahead.