Movement vs. Entering - Interesting CustServ Response

[UngeheuerLich]

my interpretation:

you can´t slide anyone into a square which he has already been in during its turn and only into a square which is greased...

 

[eamon]

With respect to Polearm Gamble:

Forced movment is explicitly stated not to prokve any opportunity attacks and other opportunity actions (p. 285), so no matter what (barring a specific exception, of course), Polearm Gamble's OA trigger won't have effect on forced movement.

 

[eamon]

To me too the distinction between entering and moving into a square sounds like nonsense (and unsupported in the rules, AFAIK). Regardless, Grease is broken no matter how you interpret it, right?

It's especially odd that only entering the overall zone has an effect, but moving about within it does not. And if you can engineer your attack bonus to be low enough, this spell could be great for allies too - just move into the grease, and get slid where you need to go (no OA's!). That doesn't sound right - since when does a greasy surface allow movement where you want to go while preventing opportunity actions?

Grease is badly implemented.

 

[Switchback]

It's especially odd that only entering the overall zone has an effect, but moving about within it does not.

Yep, I don't care for this at all. I have had too many situations where spells can end up acting as a defense for enemies against my allies.

For instance, I cast a enlarged grasping shadows (5x5 square) at 3 enemies, it hits 1 of them. Now the two enemies that are not hit, can simply stay in the zone or move around freely and use range attacks on my allies, who themselves can't enter without automatically taking damage and being slowed, possibly for 2 rounds.

It doesn't seem right.

 

[Goumindong]

With respect to Polearm Gamble:

Forced movment is explicitly stated not to prokve any opportunity attacks and other opportunity actions (p. 285), so no matter what (barring a specific exception, of course), Polearm Gamble's OA trigger won't have effect on forced movement.

Polearm Gamble is a specific exception...

 

[Pbartender]

So, right now, Grease can be better if you miss, and you can just move the target out and back in the zone until you hit.

*AHEM!*

There is a simple solution to the Grease problem...

Free Action: Free actions take almost no time or effort. You can take as many free actions as you want during your or another combatant’s turn. The DM can restrict the number of free actions in a turn. Examples: speaking a few sentences, dropping a held item, letting go of a grabbed enemy.​

PHB, page 267.

Allow me to reiterate the important part, "The DM can restrict the number of free actions in a turn." In other words, it is well within the rights of the DM to limit the number of times a wizard would be able to slide a target out of and into the zone... to just once, if necessary.

That means, if the Wizard misses the first time, he can slide the target out of the zone and back into it, but he doesn't get a second free action to try the attack again.

Problem solved.

 

[Oren]

Given the Customer Service response, Grease is now an automatic prone. On a miss, the wizard can slide the creature out of the zone and back in the zone for another attack, and keep doing this on a miss as a free action until he or she hits. Worse, now the Wizard might WANT to miss a couple of times first, to make the target expend some more of their movement before they are knocked prone.

Forced movement doesn't expend the target's movement.

 

[Dan'L]

And, in a related matter:



Given the new Customer Service response, Grease is an automatic prone.

On a miss, the wizard can slide the creature out of the zone and back in the zone for another attack, and keep doing this on a miss as a free action until he or she hits.

That's because the spell text says the trigger is a creature enters the zone, instead of saying moves into the zone.

Seems like WOTC should get this issue nailed down, soon.

There's one good reason this won't work as you suggest: you can't move the target out of the zone & back in with a slide of 2. It takes 1 square to exit the zone, and since the zone is difficult terrain, the remaining 1 square of forced movement is insufficient to re-enter a square of the zone.

-Dan'L

Edit: There's one good reason I'm wrong. Forced movement ignores difficult terrain. *sigh* Read first, then post.

 

[Arcadio]

There's one good reason this won't work as you suggest: you can't move the target out of the zone & back in with a slide of 2. It takes 1 square to exit the zone, and since the zone is difficult terrain, the remaining 1 square of forced movement is insufficient to re-enter a square of the zone.

-Dan'L

Except forced movement ignores difficult terrain.

FORCED MOVEMENT
...
- Ignore Difficult Terrain: Forced movement isn't hindered by difficult terrain.

Edit: Which you already noticed.

 

[Al'Kelhar]

Houserules on "zone-type" powers

I've tended to find the effects of "zone-type" powers as written somewhat inconsistent (note that I'm not talking only about powers with the zone keyword, but any power that affects an area and is persistent). In order to provide some consistency, I've adopted the following basic houserules:

1. A "zone-type" power causes damage (or whatever effect is stated in the text) to a creature if either: (a) the creature enters the affected area on its turn; or (b) the creature starts its turn in the affected area.

2. During its persistent phase, a "zone-type" power cannot cause damage to (or have another effect on) a creature more than once between the start of the creature's turn and the start of the creature's next turn.

I have found that these houserules overcome the textual errors, omissions and inconsistencies with the operation of "zone-type" powers satisfactorily.

Cheers, Al'Kelhar