D&D 5E MTOF: Elves are gender-swapping reincarnates and I am on board with it

[Dannyalcatraz]

It seems obvious in hindsight that Boy George and Freddie Mercury are/were gay/bi now, but back then not only was it not admitted, it was hidden from the larger population.

In a way, it was worse for Rob Halford (Judas Priest). While he was out to his band mates, and never denied being gay, he- accurately- assumed explicitly admitting his homosexuality would cost his band popularity with their heavy metal fan base. It took him decades before he did so (as I recall, while he was doing solo work with his band, Halford).

 

[Warpiglet]

Just so I am clear...it seemed from the reactions of some posters across sites that the lore is ALL elves can change and do change sex.

Is that the case or is it just some who are so "blessed" have the ability?

For me the distinction would be the difference between allowing and having it part of my world or an ignored tidbit.

 

[Sunseeker]

Just so I am clear...it seemed from the reactions of some posters across sites that the lore is ALL elves can change and do change sex.

Is that the case or is it just some who are so "blessed" have the ability?

For me the distinction would be the difference between allowing and having it part of my world or an ignored tidbit.

My impression was that this was a change to the fundamental nature of all elves.

But you may want to tweet them for an official answer.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

It should have been dwarves. It would have explained the classic trope of "Where are the dwarf women at?"

In one of my campaigns, each dwarf was carved from stone, then literally given life & transformed to flesh by Moradin Soul-Forger. They appeared how they were carved. While they were anatomically correct, their reproduction was asexual. Over time, fewer and fewer opted to create “female” offspring.

 

[Yaarel]

If the Gnome can start with an Intelligence of 17 compared to a High Elf which can start with 16 in intelligence can only max out its intelligence at the exact same level the High Elf can. Both have the exact same modifier. Both can have no more then 20 max in a stat.

Because of bounded accuracy racial mods are not as important as in previous editions.

Even a an Orc who has -2 in intelligence can eventually end up with 20 in an ability score, it just takes longer, its a learning disablity, not a lack of pitential.

The +2 ability score improvement matters when using the core rule, being 3from4d6. It also matters for other methods of ability score generation that make a natural 16 possible.

More importantly, it is the *flavor* that mechanics convey. Especially when the design discipline of bounded accuracy reduces the range of bonuses, small differences become rarer and more significant.

To pretend that a high elf with a +0 Charisma performance is an artist of poetry, music, and charm, is as eye-rolling as to pretend the half-orc with +0 Intelligence is the go-to race of wizards.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

D&D is not "white fiction," is it? It's rooted in a lot of European mythology and history, and in various early fantasy that drew upon that same European mythology and history, sure . . . but the game has continuously moved toward more diversity, more inclusion.

It isn’t “white fiction” per se, but it has included many white/western fictions within it over the decades, especially in the art and the handling of minority/non-European cultures.

But, as you say, it has generally moved towards correcting that.

 

[Yaarel]

My impression was that this was a change to the fundamental nature of all elves.

But you may want to tweet them for an official answer.

The Blessing of Gender is extremely rare. The DM decides if a particular elf can do it.

In my view, it something that all elves should be able to do. After all, it is the individual who decides how to self-express gender, whether masculine, feminine, or androgyne. Many will choose to always be masculine, many always androgyne, and many always feminine. No problem. I have always imagined male and female elves to be same height anyway. I prefer the tall elves, about 6 feet, and that includes 6-foot elf women. Heh, basically supermodels.

 

[Yaarel]

It isn’t “white fiction” per se, but it has included many white/western fictions within it over the decades, especially in the art and the handling of minority/non-European cultures.

But, as you say, it has generally moved towards correcting that.

Heh, I am unsure one can say D&D includes non-Euro cultures.

It is probably more accurate to say,

D&D misrepresents non-Euro cultures with the same zeal that it misrepresents Euro cultures.

 

[Sunseeker]

The +2 ability score improvement matters when using the core rule, being 3from4d6. It also matters for other methods of ability score generation that make a natural 16 possible.

More importantly, it is the *flavor* that mechanics convey. Especially when the design discipline of bounded accuracy reduces the range of bonuses, small differences become rarer and more significant.

To pretend that a high elf with a +0 Charisma performance is an artist of poetry, music, and charm, is as eye-rolling as to pretend the half-orc with +0 Intelligence is the go-to race of wizards.

I think too many people get hooked on the idea that the scores represent something real. 5E has arguably abstracted the value of scores worse than any other edition because they are capped at 20 for mechanical reasons. There's no lore reason why someone couldn't be smarter than that. And some monsters have higher scores than 20, so obviously scores above 20 are possible, just not for players. Which gives even less meaning to tying the scores to a character's actual ability in anything.

Consider for a moment some of the greatest painters or musicians in history. These people were not also naturally talented in Deception, Intimidation or Persuasion. Their +5 Cha applied only to their ability to create music or art. We could argue that what this really means is that their Cha score is actually +0, but that they have a crazy bonus to their "Perform" checks. Sure, we could say that... But that logic starts to fall apart when you start applying it to other things.

Consider instead someone who is incredibly well-learned in Botany. A person who could identify the genus of every plant they see, or quickly figure it out if they'd never seen it before. Are we going to say this person doesn't have a high intelligence?

D&D has set itsself up for a problem by saying that "0" is average but then turns around and says that "average" people make up the vast majority of the world. The cobblers, the farmers, the sailors, the carpenters. This means the "average person" is capable of telling the weather, judging the seasons, watching the tide, milling, tilling and chilling. Your crops are farmed by people who are neither particularly good or bad at anything at all, your cakes are baked by people who apparently aren't good but aren't bad at anything!

So, bringing this back around, it's absolutely silly to say that an elf can't be a great artist or poet because they have a +0 Cha, because the +0 is absolutely irrelevant to anything outside of the player's stat sheet, since the game has already said that most of the people in the entire world have +0's across the board.

 

[Sunseeker]

The Blessing of Gender is extremely rare. The DM decides if a particular elf can do it.

In my view, it something that all elves should be able to do. After all, it is the individual who decides how to self-express gender, whether masculine, feminine, or androgyne. Many will choose to always be masculine, many always androgyne, and many always feminine. No problem. I have always imagined male and female elves to be same height anyway. I prefer the tall elves, about 6 feet, and that includes 6-foot elf women. Heh, basically supermodels.

In my opinion it's not something that should be considered part of the default elf lore. One thing I like about D&D is that trends towards generic fantasy. It tends to stay away from including elements that are out of line with reasonable expectations of the races, except in its world books. I like that. The further D&D moves from that into establishing some kind of "unique special-snowflake" lore and IP, the less interested I become in the system. Even though I like the imagery of Tieflings since 4E, I HATE the lore.

As my first post on the subject said: the more specific D&D becomes the less I listen to it, and the less I listen to it the less interested I am in purchasing D&D products.

Did you know most supermodels are between 5'6 and 5'8? They have very strict height requirements. It is almost impossible to be a supermodel if you are outside of those measurements. Sure, there are exceptions, but those are exceptions. (sorry, learned this talking to an old gf's sister who was 6'2")