D&D 5E MTOF: Elves are gender-swapping reincarnates and I am on board with it

[Riley37]

Perhaps the depiction of the Orcish mindset, all the way from the 1E Monster Manual, to 5e, is actually a depiction of the *masculine* Orcish mindset, presented as that were the default, the norm, and the only side of the story. Perhaps there's also a feminine Orcish mindset, and neither TSR nor WotC have written about that mindset.

If they're hermaproditic, does it really make sense for there to be two distinct gendered mindsets? Seems sort of like an imposition to me.

I'm not the one speculating on orcish hermaphrodites. I'm assuming that orcs have binary* dimorphic anatomy, with corresponding gender roles, and D&D books have only ever described ONE of those genders: the masculine warrior orc perspective. (* I'm using the term "binary" as a rough approximation, which only includes about 98-99% when applied to humanity. Most humans fall into the "Big Two" anatomical phenotypes, and others don't, such as XYs with androgen insensitivity.)

The 1E MM describes orcs in terms of groups of warriors, all armed and armored. So does LotR, which only shows orcs who are soldiers. Did any orc in Middle Earth ever herd sheep or farm wheat? Is there such a thing as an orc child? if so, where do they come from? AFAIK neither the LotR books nor 1E mention anything about orc children, and never refer to any orc as "she". The Peter Jackson movies show Saruman creating orcs directly as adult warriors, who never experienced childhood.

Maybe Tolkien and TSR are only showing one side of a story... which actually has more than one side?

As for hermaphrodites with gendered mindsets, I recommend you read Ursula Le Guin's excellent novel "The Left Hand of Darkness".

 

[Mouseferatu]

I'm not the one speculating on orcish hermaphrodites.

A sentence you cannot possibly have expected to be typing when you woke up this morning.

 

[Parmandur]

I was referring to the Lolth lore video WOTC did a while ago.

The Beyond video went into how Llolth is big on embodiment, hence her revolution against Corellion, and her cult's hatred of those marked with his form shifting blessing.

 

[Ganymede81]

Perhaps the depiction of the Orcish mindset, all the way from the 1E Monster Manual, to 5e, is actually a depiction of the *masculine* Orcish mindset, presented as that were the default, the norm, and the only side of the story. Perhaps there's also a feminine Orcish mindset, and neither TSR nor WotC have written about that mindset.

WotC actually explored that feminine mindset in Volo's. There, they talked about the Gruumsh-Luthic tension as well as the Warlord-Orog tension. It goes on to explain how the feminine influence of Luthic is what counterbalances the masculine energy of Gruumsh, and it is that feminine influence that ensures orcs are a mighty people: "If it was not for the followers of Luthic, it is possible that the race of orcs would be no more than small bands of warrior-nomads, scratching out a meager existence, rather than a force capable of great destruction." Volo's even lists a prophecy where, between the endless war between the orcs and the goblinoids in Acheron, Luthic will be the only deity to survive.

But yeah, Volo's also talks about the explosive birth rate of orcs, a phenomenon necessitated by their constant raiding and attrition. Since lots of females are absolutely vital for replenishing the orcish population, and being a female has no special stigma in orcish society, the other poster's theory about orcs refusing the choice to be female doesn't seem very well supported.

 

[gyor]

WotC actually explored that feminine mindset in Volo's. There, they talked about the Gruumsh-Luthic tension as well as the Warlord-Orog tension. It goes on to explain how the feminine influence of Luthic is what counterbalances the masculine energy of Gruumsh, and it is that feminine influence that ensures orcs are a mighty people: "If it was not for the followers of Luthic, it is possible that the race of orcs would be no more than small bands of warrior-nomads, scratching out a meager existence, rather than a force capable of great destruction." Volo's even lists a prophecy where, between the endless war between the orcs and the goblinoids in Acheron, Luthic will be the only deity to survive.

But yeah, Volo's also talks about the explosive birth rate of orcs, a phenomenon necessitated by their constant raiding and attrition. Since lots of females are absolutely vital for replenishing the orcish population, and being a female has no special stigma in orcish society, the other poster's theory about orcs refusing the choice to be female doesn't seem very well supported.

The need to rapidly replenish the population is also why Orc women are rarely warriors (but not never), because only a society with extremely traditional gender roles would bounce back from from having its male population slaughtered in war constantly. Oh course traditional gender roles are also partially why the population needs replenishing in the first place, it has male disposablity at its heart.

 

[Ganymede81]

The need to rapidly replenish the population is also why Orc women are rarely warriors (but not never), because only a society with extremely traditional gender roles would bounce back from from having its male population slaughtered in war constantly. Oh course traditional gender roles are also partially why the population needs replenishing in the first place, it has male disposablity at its heart.

I didn't see anything in Volo's about orcish women rarely being warriors. In fact, it doesn't even talk about any sort of traditional gender roles. Volo's talks about how orcs don't take mates and regard mating as a mundane necessity with no other significance. Additionally, males and females are indifferent toward one another. It also says females continue their roles in the tribe while pregnant and only retire to the whelping pens when they are about to give birth.

If anything, traditional gender roles as humans see them do not exist in orcish society. Where it is echoed is in the real world human perceptions of masculine and feminine in the division between Gruumsh's influence and Luthic's influence, but there is not warrior/nonwarrior sex segregation in orcish society.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

A sentence you cannot possibly have expected to be typing when you woke up this morning.

There are more genders in sky and earth, Hennet,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
- Orclet to Hennet, from Devis’ Orclet (1.5.167-8)

 

[Sunseeker]

The need to rapidly replenish the population is also why Orc women are rarely warriors (but not never), because only a society with extremely traditional gender roles would bounce back from from having its male population slaughtered in war constantly. Oh course traditional gender roles are also partially why the population needs replenishing in the first place, it has male disposablity at its heart.

Maybe, though we could also take a Krogan approach: Short gestation and high birth numbers.

 

[Jester David]

No, that's what the dice are for.

And random chance isn't really useful for producing a narrative.

That's why so many of the rules exist to mitigate the disastrous effects random chance has on creating a story.

D&D is the most known example of RPGs, but it’s certainly not the industry baseline. There’s so much variety in what RPGs are and can be.
My go to example for the un-D&D is always Dread. No dice. No mechanical character variation. Still very much a pen-and-paper tabletop roleplaying game.

The space in the Venn Diagram where D&D and Dread overlap is what RPGs are. At least to me.

 

[Moorcrys]

Gender-shifting elves? Thumbs up.

Enormous-bobble-balloon-headed halflings? Thumbs down.

That is where I prefer to direct my nerd rage.