Multi-classed Paladin / Cler

[TheNovaLord]

I am not completely sure how the Channel Positive Energy to Harm Undead works for this character. I was hoping for some help with this.
Here’s my hypothetical, starting with relevant attributes:


Levels: Cleric 1 / Paladin 4
Stats: Charisma 18 (modifier +4)
Trait: Sacred Conduit (+1 on channel energy DCs)
Domains: Sun (+1 per cleric level to harm damage)
Glory (+2 to save DC when channeling to harm undead)
As a Cleric:
Channel per day = 3 + 4 (Cha) = 7
Damage = d6 + 1
Save DC = 10 +4 (Cha) + 1 (Trait) + 2 (Glory) + 1 (½ lvl) = 18


As a Paladin. Not so sure about this. Says in the PRG that at 4th level paladin can channel positive energy like a cleric, the paladin level being the effective cleric one.
Channel per day = ½ Lay on hands per day = ½ x [2 (½ lvl) + 4 (Cha)] = 3
Damage = 2d6 + ?
Save DC = 10 + 4 (Cha) + 1 (Trait) + 2 (½ lvl) + ?


Questions for channeling as a Paladin:
Does the Glory domain bonus to the save DC apply?
Does the Sun domain bonus to the harm damage apply? If so is it +1 or +4?


Other questions:
If I took the Improved Channeling Feat would that apply to the save DCs of both Cleric and Paladin?
If I took the Extra Channeling Feat would that give me 2 extra lots of channeling for the two classes, i.e. 4, or just 2 – to be split between Paladin and Cleric (noting that 1 Channeling = 2 Lay on Hands)?
If I channel energy to harm undead as a cleric, having previously declared Smite Evil against one of those undead, would the smite evil damage bonus of +8 (+2 x 4 paladin levels) apply? If it did, would it be halved if the undead makes its will saving throw against channeling?


ta

 

[Truth Seeker]

Hi, judging from 73 (now 74) looks, now including me.

You have presented the worst munchkin build, ever.

Sorry to be blunt.

In short, if you wanted a true martial skill 'cleric', then you should have gone the Fighter/Cleric multi-classing.

With the Fighter/Cleric, you would have at least, maintain a stronger grasp on the cleric' abilites, like channel, undead, and postive energy use, during a normal level progression.

Mixing the paladin's own, and the 'math' you rrovided as an example, is a 'frakkin' headache. The Paladin gets dimnished abilites of a 'cleric' on it's own built, since the Paladin is given a little more martial (fighting) skill, than a cleric.

You are simply mini-maxing, and this is very terrible. I know, I know, it is suppose to be fantasy theme, where things are to be above the norm.

But mercy, there are some pratical common sense, even to something like this.

 

[Scott DeWar]

on these lines that Nova Lord has presented, I have a player that wants to build a paladin/cleric that is a champion of Iomadea and I amy be looking at very similaar 'challenges' . there is a PRC called Inherito's crusador. Have you any advice for me?

 

[TheNovaLord]

ta, i think

not sure how one can min-max and make the worst munckin build ever in the same character, but they are your terms not mine

as it has been looked at so many times here, and elsewhere, w/o answer....ill assume the answer is, nobody knows!!

 

[Set]

Questions for channeling as a Paladin:
Does the Glory domain bonus to the save DC apply?
Does the Sun domain bonus to the harm damage apply? If so is it +1 or +4?

Neither specifically says whether or not it applies to channel energy from other classes, but I'd allow it to apply to the Paladin channels.

The Sun domain states that the bonus is equal to your Cleric level, so it would be +1.

Other questions:
If I took the Improved Channeling Feat would that apply to the save DCs of both Cleric and Paladin?

I'd say yes.

If I took the Extra Channeling Feat would that give me 2 extra lots of channeling for the two classes, i.e. 4, or just 2 – to be split between Paladin and Cleric (noting that 1 Channeling = 2 Lay on Hands)?

Precedent from 3.5 is that Extra Turning affected every Turn / Rebuke pool you had (up to three for a Cleric with Earth and Plant Domains, for instance).

The closest thing to a Pathfinder precedent I can find is a Boon Companion feat that gives +4 effective levels for Animal Companion / Familiar advancement, but only applies to a single companion / familiar, if the character happens to have multiple such critters.

Given that second precedent, I suspect that an official stance would be that the Extra Channel only applies to either the Cleric or the Paladin channels (and, obviously, you'll want to apply it to the much more useful Paladin channels).

If I channel energy to harm undead as a cleric, having previously declared Smite Evil against one of those undead, would the smite evil damage bonus of +8 (+2 x 4 paladin levels) apply? If it did, would it be halved if the undead makes its will saving throw against channeling?

I would *totally* have assumed that the Smite Evil bonus damage only applied to melee or ranged weapon damage, but it is worded to apply to 'damage rolls,' which means that a Paladin / Wizard with a Wand of Fireball could theoretically apply it to her fireball dice... Freaky.

So yeah, go for it, Smite Channel away.

I would think that the Smite damage is not saved against, but added to whatever amount of channel damage makes it through. So if he channels for 2d6+1 and does 8 pts of damage, and then undead then makes his will save and only takes 4 pts of damage, you then go and add your full Smite Evil damage afterwards.

But I have assumed wrong about how Smite Evil works already once in the last few paragraphs, so take that with as much salt as you can bear...

 

[Truth Seeker]

On the Fireball smithe scenario, only one individual can be effected, only one. If there is more than one 'evil' opponents in the area effect. They get fireball dmg, and nothing more.

As for Melee or Ranged attack, yupe...there is no direct specific description on delivery, but again, only one individual is subjected to the smithe effect.

Neither specifically says whether or not it applies to channel energy from other classes, but I'd allow it to apply to the Paladin channels.

The Sun domain states that the bonus is equal to your Cleric level, so it would be +1.



I'd say yes.



Precedent from 3.5 is that Extra Turning affected every Turn / Rebuke pool you had (up to three for a Cleric with Earth and Plant Domains, for instance).

The closest thing to a Pathfinder precedent I can find is a Boon Companion feat that gives +4 effective levels for Animal Companion / Familiar advancement, but only applies to a single companion / familiar, if the character happens to have multiple such critters.

Given that second precedent, I suspect that an official stance would be that the Extra Channel only applies to either the Cleric or the Paladin channels (and, obviously, you'll want to apply it to the much more useful Paladin channels).



I would *totally* have assumed that the Smite Evil bonus damage only applied to melee or ranged weapon damage, but it is worded to apply to 'damage rolls,' which means that a Paladin / Wizard with a Wand of Fireball could theoretically apply it to her fireball dice... Freaky.

So yeah, go for it, Smite Channel away.

I would think that the Smite damage is not saved against, but added to whatever amount of channel damage makes it through. So if he channels for 2d6+1 and does 8 pts of damage, and then undead then makes his will save and only takes 4 pts of damage, you then go and add your full Smite Evil damage afterwards.

But I have assumed wrong about how Smite Evil works already once in the last few paragraphs, so take that with as much salt as you can bear...