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Multiclassing in Mutants and Masterminds
- Thread starter Kelleris
- Start date
Super Girl
First Post
Its point buy, you can do this already. The 30 points you spend on Energy Blast with the Area extra can be used instead for this:
Strike +5, Amazing Save (Damage + Reflex) +5, Running +4 (PS: Leaping)
Strike +5, Amazing Save (Damage + Reflex) +5, Running +4 (PS: Leaping)
Mad Hatter
First Post
Er, right. Kinda missing the point. The idea is that lots of weaker things are not as useful as a few really powerful things (see, e.g., the Mystic Theurge or Eldritch Knight or Arcane Trickster). That's the multiclassing trade-off, and in D&D it gives you more things in exchange for the increase in specialization.
At the moment I'm making an ex-Mimic who's had his abilities "clogged up" by other powers. So he has things like Telepathy (underwater only), and Spinning (dizzy). The character's pretty obviously going to be weaker than someone who tries to make a laser-beam focused character, barring some kind of kick. The idea is that you reduce your maximum power for any ability (your PL), and gain some points to spend on other individually-sub-par-powers.
Multiclassing for point buy systems. It works nicely in M&M because of the PL thing.
At the moment I'm making an ex-Mimic who's had his abilities "clogged up" by other powers. So he has things like Telepathy (underwater only), and Spinning (dizzy). The character's pretty obviously going to be weaker than someone who tries to make a laser-beam focused character, barring some kind of kick. The idea is that you reduce your maximum power for any ability (your PL), and gain some points to spend on other individually-sub-par-powers.
Multiclassing for point buy systems. It works nicely in M&M because of the PL thing.
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Ranger REG
Explorer
???Mad Hatter said:
It's a freeform point-buy system, with absolutely no class-by-archetype. Even if you use one of the templates, you don't have to adhere to it as you level up.
"Multiclass in a class-free system." Sounds like a self-defeating mechanism.
Super Girl
First Post
Its impossible to multi-class in a system with no classes. It is categorically impossible.
Multi-class: being of more then one class
Class-less: without classes
How do you have more then 1 class in a system with no classes?
Hatter, that character that you are talking about? He is made the same exact way every other character is made, he just spreads his points over more powers at the expense of the extra strength those powers could have had if they were focused. That is the purpouse of point buy, you buy what you want. Unless you actually want to have more points then other players, but at the cost of not being able to reach your PL, Ie a major weakness (10 pp), the character acts for all intents and purpouses as if he were one PL less then he actually is, and that is still within the scope of the current rules, and it has absolutely nothing to do with classes.
Multi-class: being of more then one class
Class-less: without classes
How do you have more then 1 class in a system with no classes?
Hatter, that character that you are talking about? He is made the same exact way every other character is made, he just spreads his points over more powers at the expense of the extra strength those powers could have had if they were focused. That is the purpouse of point buy, you buy what you want. Unless you actually want to have more points then other players, but at the cost of not being able to reach your PL, Ie a major weakness (10 pp), the character acts for all intents and purpouses as if he were one PL less then he actually is, and that is still within the scope of the current rules, and it has absolutely nothing to do with classes.
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Mad Hatter said:
Er...you're missing the point. The system already does that. You're spending less points on power levels and getting a lot more varied powers than the laser guy. You are getting a price break on your Telepathy cause it only works underwater. That gives you more points for other things. Thats the trade off. He is putting all his eggs in one basket and you are spreading your stuff out. Its already mult-classing, just by a different name.
drnuncheon
Explorer
The idea that 'more powers at lower ranks is less powerful' just isn't true in M&M in the same way it is in D&D. Even low levels of certain powers - such as Invisibility or Incorporeal - are almost equally as effective as high levels. Low levels of abilities like Precognition and Telepathy, while not quite as bad as Invisibility, are still quite useful for the points spent. And there are so many ways to cover for a lower-powered attack that it's just not enough to warrant an increase in points.
J
J
Kelleris
Explorer
Okay, first off, I made a mistake; the "Mad Hatter" post was actually me posting on her account by mistake. Sorry about that.
And I know there aren't any classes in M&M; I'm also not under the misapprehension that the archetypes are classes you have to stick to. Multiclassing is just the meta effect I'm trying to get - a broader array of powers at a lower level. In D&D, this generally means that you aren't just divvying up things separately, because lots of little things is not as useful as one tricked out specialty, because you can only do one thing at a time.
Dr. Muncheon, it is true that some of the powers are still pretty useful at any level. But the workhorse powers demand that you keep them as high as possible to keep your character useful. That's why I phrased the 10-point weakness the way I did - it keeps you from maxing out any power at all. I suppose you could build a character for which this isn't really a weakness (GM's judgment factor),* but for most heroes, an effective PL reduction of 1-3 or so is probably worth a weakness, especially given effects like Protection.
* IIRC, the Pugilist has only 5 ranks in Combat Sense, and that's it. Is that right?
And I know there aren't any classes in M&M; I'm also not under the misapprehension that the archetypes are classes you have to stick to. Multiclassing is just the meta effect I'm trying to get - a broader array of powers at a lower level. In D&D, this generally means that you aren't just divvying up things separately, because lots of little things is not as useful as one tricked out specialty, because you can only do one thing at a time.
Dr. Muncheon, it is true that some of the powers are still pretty useful at any level. But the workhorse powers demand that you keep them as high as possible to keep your character useful. That's why I phrased the 10-point weakness the way I did - it keeps you from maxing out any power at all. I suppose you could build a character for which this isn't really a weakness (GM's judgment factor),* but for most heroes, an effective PL reduction of 1-3 or so is probably worth a weakness, especially given effects like Protection.
* IIRC, the Pugilist has only 5 ranks in Combat Sense, and that's it. Is that right?
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I like buying more powers at lower ranks -- but then, in D&D, I prefer bards. Flexibility over focus, always fun.
I'd suggest, though, that you make sure you're good at something -- really good -- so that even if your GM hits the party with stuff that you can't hit (or take more than one hit from), you can still be good enough at SOMETHING to be useful.
If I recall correctly, Miss Slick, a PL10 character with 6 ranks of Super Speed (including Mach One Punch with Area and Selective) and 7 ranks of Energy Field (Cold) (which added Protection in and also gave her Touch-Range Slick as a power) wasn't doing as much damage to the bad guys as her more focussed companions... but she had a great time disabling mooks, she required two damage saves, and even if you took her by surprise, she didn't go splat as quickly as most flat-footed speedsters, because she had the redundancy of Energy Field protection (which ordinarily got lost due to PL stacking limits after a few ranks).
So the short answer is: It depends on what kind of bad guys your GM throws at you. A good GM will have enough bad guys that you get some of the action too, even while giving at least one nigh-invulnerable person for your melee masher focused pal to deal with...
I'd suggest, though, that you make sure you're good at something -- really good -- so that even if your GM hits the party with stuff that you can't hit (or take more than one hit from), you can still be good enough at SOMETHING to be useful.
If I recall correctly, Miss Slick, a PL10 character with 6 ranks of Super Speed (including Mach One Punch with Area and Selective) and 7 ranks of Energy Field (Cold) (which added Protection in and also gave her Touch-Range Slick as a power) wasn't doing as much damage to the bad guys as her more focussed companions... but she had a great time disabling mooks, she required two damage saves, and even if you took her by surprise, she didn't go splat as quickly as most flat-footed speedsters, because she had the redundancy of Energy Field protection (which ordinarily got lost due to PL stacking limits after a few ranks).
So the short answer is: It depends on what kind of bad guys your GM throws at you. A good GM will have enough bad guys that you get some of the action too, even while giving at least one nigh-invulnerable person for your melee masher focused pal to deal with...
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