Multipathing - or Intraclass Multiclassing

[Salthorae]

All statements contained in this post are personal opinions and in no way reflect absolute statements of 5th edition.

I looked for a similar thread via search, but could not find anything.

Problem: The rigidity of the intra-class path choices in D&D 5th edition.

By this I mean for example... If I am playing a rogue, and through the game by level 3 I have trained as a thief. Then despite my best role play and DM efforts, even if I later take money to kill people and am welcomed whole heartedly into the Assassin's guild by the Grandfather of Assassins, never can my character actually learn the skills of an assassin or assassination.

The same holds true for all the classes.

To me this is a huge problem that limits class abilities to map or work with role play possibilities.

Solution: Multipathing

By this I mean the ability to intra-class multiclass. You could mix this with regular 5e multiclassing without any issues or balance problems I think as well.

Rationale: This concept allows a player to remain within the larger class concept they have chosen, but to free themselves up a bit to mix and match to fit where the game may take them a bit more than being forced outside of their class to do something different than the initially chosen path.

Framework: Simply put, what i propose is based on the simple idea that each classes path abilitiy gains are all internally consistent to those classes. E.g., all the rogue paths gain abilities at set levels of 3,9,13, & 17. Though all the classes differ from each other in this, internally they are consistent.

Proposal: At each new path/archetype ability gain level, allow the player to select a new path from those available to that class, but from the lowest level not already possessed in the new path.

For example, my Rogue who initially started out as her career path as a thief and at level 3 learned the abilities of Fast Hands and Second-Story Work has just gained level 9 as a rogue. Normally this would mean that she would gain the Supreme Sneak ability. However in the intervening 6 levels of role play, she freelanced as a killer for hire, caught the eye of the assassin's guild and was courted and taken in by them. So now at level 9, she chooses to gain the 3rd level Assassin archetype abilities of Bonus Proficiencies and Assassinate rather than continue to advance her Thief abilities.

Similarly, at 13th level, she could choose to select either of the next level abilities of the two paths already trod, either Supreme Sneak or Infiltration Expertise. OR she could learn the Arcane Trickser's Spellcasting and Mage Hand Legerdemain. Then at 17th level, she could choose a 9th level ability from one of the three paths, or having stayed with only 2 paths could either select a 13th level ability from the path advanced to 9th or a second 9th level ability.

Issues: Thus far the only issues I have seen with this concept relate to the Monastic Tradition of the Way of the Four Elements and that they select an elemental discipline based on their overall monk level. This would have to be further clarified to Path level rather than Monk level.

Summary: Overall I think this is a simple, elegant method of freeing up the rigidity of the 5th edition class/path system a bit while still maintaining the overall balance of the classes as a whole. Just like regular multiclassing, you gain breadth, only within a class not between classses, at the expense of the Single Path characters higher level powers/abilities.

I welcome feedback and thoughts from the community at large. Let me know what you think and if this is workable or not. if you see glaring points of brokenness that I am just not seeing, please shine a light on them so I can either scrap this system or patch the hole.

 

[delericho]

One issue I see with it is that it fails the "so weak no-one would bother" test - the 3rd level power of the Assassin path should be much weaker than the 9th level power of the Thief path, so why would I take that one?

But maybe that's not a problem - trading a little bit of power for a bit more flexibility.

Incidentally: I was sure I saw a thread on in-class multiclassing here just a few weeks ago. Though I may be mistaken.

 

[the Jester]

If I was going to allow multipathing, I'd allow you to choose your 9th level path ability from any of the paths, but it would be the 9th level ability of that path. Sometimes, the ability gained at a certain level in each path is designed for a specific pillar- either combat or non-combat- and allowing the character to take a combat ability from a different level rubs me wrong.

Look at the discussion of the barbarian in the recent Unearthed Arcana article about building custom subclasses over at WotC's site for an example of what I'm talking about.

 

[Salthorae]

One issue I see with it is that it fails the "so weak no-one would bother" test - the 3rd level power of the Assassin path should be much weaker than the 9th level power of the Thief path, so why would I take that one?

But maybe that's not a problem - trading a little bit of power for a bit more flexibility.

That is the point to me actually, trading a higher power for flexibility. It is the same concept as multiclassing really, e.g., your abilities gained from going Rogue 8/Fighter 1 are going to likely be weaker than going Rogue 9 to get that 9th level path feature. In the same way, you're trading the high path ability to pickup a lower one for more flexibility.

If I was going to allow multipathing, I'd allow you to choose your 9th level path ability from any of the paths, but it would be the 9th level ability of that path. Sometimes, the ability gained at a certain level in each path is designed for a specific pillar- either combat or non-combat- and allowing the character to take a combat ability from a different level rubs me wrong.

Look at the discussion of the barbarian in the recent Unearthed Arcana article about building custom subclasses over at WotC's site for an example of what I'm talking about.

I hadn't read that yet, so thanks for pointing it out.

I see what you're saying on the one hand, but to me it's not really that different than generic multiclassing. Going Rogue 10/Fighter 10 gives up the higher level Rogue abilities regardless of the pillar they are associated with as well. In the same way here, you are giving up higher level pillar abilities to get lower level abilities from a different path/class.

To me the only difference between multiclassing and multipathing is that in multipathing you continue to gain and advance in the core abilities of the class while dabbling in different paths, mastering none. Multiclassing you have to sacrifice some of the core features of a class to get other abilties and pick up a potentially odd or unwieldy class related to the character development to get an ability you might otherwise pickup with multipathing.

This would also allow you to model things that you can't do right now. For example Red Wizards. They were noted in 2e Wizards and Rogues of the Realms as "double specialists". With this mechanic you can achieve that flavor. (Note: I'm not voting in favor of the double specialist version vs. others, just noting that it helps achieve that goal).

I don't like the idea of someone swapping to a new path and then bypassing the lower lever stuff to get the same tier power. Skipping the ability to actually assassinate someone, but learning how to effortlessly infiltrate seems odd to me, like skipping Geometry and going straight to Trig or something like that. May be possible, just seems odd.

 

[Sadrik]

I had a different solution:
When the basic rules came out this was a major problem for me. I took all of the class features and turned them into minor features or spells. The features then could be selected every so many levels. This worked well because basic only has four classes. When you add in every class, you need to cut those additional classes and add their features to the list. You could also categorize some of the features into pools of abilities. This could be important to separate some of the abilities for similar classes but you want them to be different. For instance, you want the warlock features to be different than the sorcerer features. For me, this is not an issue. Pick the ones you want for your character. This is a very important design piece for me. I do not want every warrior or wizard to be the same.

The below link has my house rules for basic. There are a lot more there than just this but this portion of the rules could be useful in developing your own rules. Note supernatural class features becomes spells and non-supernatural features becomes minor features.
http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?356621-5e-basic-house-rules

 

[eMalc]

I like the idea of Multipathing, it definitely adds a bigger degree of customisation. The only thing I would really suggest though is to limit the player's choice to 2 or 3 paths of the same class, depending on how many paths that class offers. A single character could get far more powerful and flexible than you may like otherwise.
Taking the Rogue as an example:
They hit level 3, take Thief. They can now disarm traps, pick locks and use objects as a bonus action as well as climb at full speed.
They hit level 4, take Assassin. They're now proficient in disguise and poisoning and (usually) gain advantage on the first round of combat.
They hit level 5, take Arcane Trickster. They can now cast spells as well as disarm traps and pick locks at a distance (for a bonus action mind you).
That character is looking less like they belong in a team and more like they should be some super treasure hunter running off on their own. This all depends on how much versatility you're willing to give your players ofcourse.

 

[Salthorae]

Taking the Rogue as an example:
They hit level 3, take Thief.
They hit level 4, take Assassin.
They hit level 5, take Arcane Trickster.

I'm not sure you understand what I mean. You're still bound by the chart and levels that path abilities would be gained, so your example would actually be:
Level 3 - Thief (3rd level Thief path abilities)
Level 9 - Assassin (3rd level Assassin path abilities)
Level 13 - Arcane Trickster (3rd level Arcane Trickster path abilities)

So yes, you can use your bonus action to control a mage hand to pick locks at distance in the same round that you have advantage on your attacks against creatures who haven't taken a turn in combat yet and if you hit them it is a crit, and then you could use your full move speed to climb a wall away, but your'e also 13th level and have given up the option of taking a single path to 13th level abilities or gaining the 9th level ability of either a Thief or an Assassin.

So yeah, you can climb at full speed, disarm traps, locks (at a distance) and use items as a bonus action, gain proficiencies and advantage, and cast spells. But you only know 3 first level spells and can only cast 2 per long rest. But you've given up a ton to do that.

This is a slightly underpowering option, especially the more Paths you take, but to me that is ok as long as it adds some flexibility and would let me or those in my group have characters grow as the story presents them choices and options for their character's lives rather than saying, "sorry assassin's guild, I'm a thief so I can't ever join you..." which is just silly to me.

 

[Li Shenron]

The OP's idea is totally feasible. It's up to the players to choose anyway, so if a player thinks the PC is "weaker", then just don't pick that ability but something else.

I can see the idea extended to even more flexible options:

#1 > Can choose another path from the same class, take path features strictly in order (as per the OP)

#2 > Can choose another path from the same class, take path features in any order, as long as minimum level is satisfied

#3 > Can choose another path from any class, take path features strictly in order, but also minimum level must be satisfied

#4 > Can choose another path from any class, take path features in any order, as long as minimum level is satisfied

Obviously a few things must be checked for each specific case:

- not every feature from every path of every class will be applicable (obvious example are spell-enhancing features for non-spellcasters)
- features built on previous features can be taken only if the PC already has the previous feature

So for instance the Champion's path feature are:

3rd, Improved Critical
7th, Remarkable Athlete
10, Additional Fighting Style
15th, Superior Critical
18th, Survivor

Superior Critical is clearly an improvement of Improved Critical, so I would always require the PC to already have IC (or an equivalent feature from somewhere else) before taking SC. But all other path features are not built on specific Fighter class features*, therefore a Rogue could be allowed to take these in place of her own path's features. However, a Rogue gains path features at 3rd, 7th, 13th and 17th, so when taking those levels above as requirements, the Rogue could take e.g. Remarkable Athlete as her own 7th/13th/17th path feature, Additional Fighting Style at 13th/17th, and Superior Critical at 17th, but could not technically ever take Survivor.

*nominally Additional Fighting Style is built on the Fighter's Fighting Style, but it also works without the previous

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Deconstrucing the game classes even further, you could do the same for some class features, and not just path features, shifting the game from class-based to more feature-based. The more you shift, the higher the flexibility in character creation, but the higher the risk of something not working as intended. It's always up to you...