Multiple effects

[hailstop]

I know that if you get hit by something that causes ongoing damage, that effects don't stack. Ie if you get hit by a creature that causes 5 poison ongoing, and another that causes 10 poison ongoing, you just get 10 poison ongoing.

However, what about the saves? Would you make 2 saves (I'm guessing yes).

But what about if you get hit by the same creature in multiple turns.

Say something causes 5 poison ongoing and you're immobilized. Then the creature spends an action point and hits you again.

Will you have to make 2 saves to completely cancel the effect?

 

[James McMurray]

Nope, one save per status condition, no matter how many times it is applied.

 

[Danceofmasks]

Well, the rules say 1 save, but RAW breaks due to circumstances such as different penalties (say you have a -2 penalty on the 5 ongoing) and associated effects (say the 5 ongoing also dazes you, save ends both).

 

[vladbat]

Most of the monsters I have seen in the modules often have (save ends both) in their entries.

 

[hailstop]

Well, the rules say 1 save, but RAW breaks due to circumstances such as different penalties (say you have a -2 penalty on the 5 ongoing) and associated effects (say the 5 ongoing also dazes you, save ends both).

Yeah, in this case I see this as two different effects:

1. 5 ongoing
2. 5 ongoing + daze

So you would need two saves, but the 5 ongoing would not stack.

But what I'm wondering about is:

1. 5 ongoing + daze
2. 5 ongoing + daze.

 

[hailstop]

Most of the monsters I have seen in the modules often have (save ends both) in their entries.

You misunderstand me.

It's not whether or not you need 1 or two saves to end:

5 ongoing + dazed

It's whether or not you need 1 or two saves to end:

1. 5 ongoing (from hit #1)
2. 5 ongoing (from hit #2)

or

1. dazed (from hit #1)
2. dazed (from hit #2)

 

[Mahali]

It's whether or not you need 1 or two saves to end:
1. 5 ongoing (from hit #1)
2. 5 ongoing (from hit #2)
or
1. dazed (from hit #1)
2. dazed (from hit #2)

One for both cases, unless the "5 ongoing" are different (such as one is cold and the other is fire). If they're untyped damage still just one.

 

[Danceofmasks]

Yup, but how about this:
1. Ongoing 10 fire.
2. Ongoing 5 fire with a -11 save penalty.
You have fire resist 5.

Now, you can't make the save vs. the ongoing 5, but it won't hurt you ... and since the ongoing 10 is the same type, do you die from it?

 

[SadisticFishing]

Yup, but how about this:
1. Ongoing 10 fire.
2. Ongoing 5 fire with a -11 save penalty.
You have fire resist 5.

Now, you can't make the save vs. the ongoing 5, but it won't hurt you ... and since the ongoing 10 is the same type, do you die from it?

Two separate effects, imho. The fire damage wouldn't stack though.

Good way to phrase the question though, I was coming up with a similar question but your example is more extreme.

 

[Milambus]

Yup, but how about this:
1. Ongoing 10 fire.
2. Ongoing 5 fire with a -11 save penalty.
You have fire resist 5.

Now, you can't make the save vs. the ongoing 5, but it won't hurt you ... and since the ongoing 10 is the same type, do you die from it?

I found an applicable CS response to this on the wiki here:

Q: These rules state that two different effects of ongoing damage of the same type do not stack, but, are they saved against individually or together?
A: Together. The lower damage won't require a separate save. Once an afflicted creature or player saves against a given ongoing damage of some kind, they stop taking that ongoing damage.

And yes, we all know that CS is not 100% reliable. However, baring any other evidence or response it is as close to an official answer as we are likely to get.

Additionally, looking at the PHB pg 278, under "Different Types of Ongoing Damage" it specifically states "You make separate saving throws against each damage type." The next section regarding "The Same Type of Ongoing Damahe" does not say that, which implies, but does not state, that you make only one roll for each damage type.

Now this could mean that you take 10 damage, reduced to 5 from the fire resist, and you make one saving throw at -11. The rules really don't say.