Multiple saving throws at start of turn -- how do they work?

[Prestidigitalis]

Let's say a 29th level Knight or Slayer has the feats Superior Will and Martial Resolve (descriptions below) in addition to the class feature Spirit of War. Is the result multiple "extra" saving throws, or is there just one?

Example: At start of turn the Knight is Stunned, Dazed and taking ongoing damage. Is it possible to use Superior Will to save vs. Stunned, Martial Resolve to save vs Dazed, and Spirit of War to save vs. the ongoing damage?

Example: Same situation, but the save against Stunned granted by Superior Will fails. Can the Knight try to save vs. Stunned using one or both of the other methods?

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Here are the feat and feature descriptions:

Superior Will: [...] if you are dazed or stunned, you can make a saving throw at the start of your turn to end that effect, even if the effect doesn’t normally end on a save.

Martial Resolve: You can make saving throws against the dazed, slowed, stunned, weakened, and immobilized conditions at both the start and the end of your turn.

Knight/Slayer Spirit of War: At the start of your turn, you can make a saving throw against one effect that a save can end. If the saving throw succeeds, the effect ends, preventing it from affecting you on your current turn. If the saving throw fails, you still make a saving throw against the effect at the end of your turn.

 

[Kerranin]

I don't see any reason why you would not get 3 saves, in any order you wanted them. (after all this is a lv29 character who spent feats to be good at this)

 

[ffy]

i would agree with Kerranin, if an epic level has spent feats to be able to shrug off effects, he should be able to do it as he pleases. he can use each feat to save against a separate effect or spend all three on one effect (if he fails the first two, and if the conditions apply of course)

 

[the Jester]

My take is that Martial Resolve and Superior Will overlap and thus don't stack. Spirit of War, on the other hand, lets you make a single save of your choice; I'd let you make your Martial Resolve save and then if it failed you could try again using SoW.

 

[DracoSuave]

In the case you describe, you would have more than three potential saving throws.

First, you execute Martial Resolve. This allows you saving throws against the stunned and dazed conditions. This functions exactly like the saving throws at the end of turn. One save per valid condition.

Then, if you failed any of those saving throws, you can use Superior Will, and as each condition is tracked separately, you'll get to use it on both. Superior Will doesn't restrict itself to once per turn, but is triggered by each condition.

Then you can use Spirit of War.

So... you actually have the opportunity for five saving throws here.

 

[Prestidigitalis]

In the case you describe, you would have more than three potential saving throws.

First, you execute Martial Resolve. This allows you saving throws against the stunned and dazed conditions. This functions exactly like the saving throws at the end of turn. One save per valid condition.

Then, if you failed any of those saving throws, you can use Superior Will, and as each condition is tracked separately, you'll get to use it on both. Superior Will doesn't restrict itself to once per turn, but is triggered by each condition.

Then you can use Spirit of War.

So... you actually have the opportunity for five saving throws here.

Interesting point. Of course, Martial Resolve applies to 5 separate conditions, so the saves could really pile up.

 

[Prestidigitalis]

Hmmmm... Since Superior Will allows saves even against things that normally have no save, does that carry over to Martial Resolve or Spirit of War?

In other words, take the Stunned and Dazed conditions in my example, and make them both "end of turn" instead of "save ends". How many saving throws are allowed?

 

[DracoSuave]

In that case, Martial Resolve would do nothing.

Superior Will's save is it's own thing. It creates a save against that effect, and that save can apply to stuff that doesn't allow saving throws. This does not affect, modify, add, nor deny any sort of baggage, benefit, or any other rule or ability to any other saving throw except for the singular saving throw it grants for that ability at the start of the turn.

 

[Prestidigitalis]

In that case, Martial Resolve would do nothing.

Superior Will's save is it's own thing. It creates a save against that effect, and that save can apply to stuff that doesn't allow saving throws. This does not affect, modify, add, nor deny any sort of baggage, benefit, or any other rule or ability to any other saving throw except for the singular saving throw it grants for that ability at the start of the turn.

That's pretty much what I thought. Thanks.

 

[666Sinner666]

As far as I know there is no stacking of saves. Now the Knight would get ONE save each vs the stunned, dazed, and ongoing damage. But thats me and this seems like a case of RAW vs RAI as it could go either way really.