Multiplier and resistance, which one goes first?

[ES]

Suppose a wizard casts fireball on a hellwasp swarm. The wizard rolled 30, and the hellwasp swarm didn't make the save. Because the hellwasp swarm has fire resistance, and takes half again as much damage (+50%) from area effect, the questions is how to calculate damage?

A: Fire resistance goes first, (30-10)*1.5 = 30.
B: Multiplier goes first, 30*1.5-10= 35.

Is there any official answers for that? Thanks for reply.

 

[cmanos]

interesting situation.....not sure exactly the order inwhich tehse would be applied....as a DM I'd call Rule 0 and say it did 33 points of damage...

 

[Altamont Ravenard]

OK.

The area spell modifier (+50%) should apply first, THEN Fire resistance is taken into account.

So the damage would be 30 points of damage, X 1.5, -10, for a grand total of 35 points of damage.

Resistance applies to the spell's total damage, which could have been reduced if the swarm had made its save, and was increased because of the nature of the target (swarm).

AR

 

[Creeperman]

The vulnerablility is applied after the save, but regardless of the save's result. After that, resistances may reduce the total damage.

So in your example, the fireball does 30 base damage, minus zero for the failed save, plus 15 (50% of the base damage), minus 10, for a total of 35 points of damage.

If the swarm had made its save, the math would be 30 base, minus 15, plus 15, minus 10, for a total of 20 points of damage.

 

[BearODice]

Actually, I talked with Ed Stark of WotC ( he's a long time gamer friend from back when he was on the East Coast) about this just a week ago. Apply the save first, then apply the resistance and multiply the remaining damage by the vulnerability.

So in your example, the answer is A:
1) Save failed, swarm takes all 30 pts of damage.
2) Resistance is applied, so damage is reduced by 10 to 20 pts.
3) Vulneability is applied, so 20 x 1.5 = 30 pts.

Bear

 

[Liquidsabre]

Too bad there isn't any good rules text to support either method of applying damage. We've been over this a few times before and the relevant text failed to yield anything clear-cut. Unfortunately all we can do is view which method we like the most for our games and run it that way, consistently.

Myself, I'm of the opinion that creatures/characters vulnerable to a particular attack (that multiplies damage) will only ever see the mulitplied amount of damage in the game world. Literally, the normal unmultiplied damage flat out doesn't exist for a creature with vulnerability. Making it impossible to *not* multiply the damage before you apply resistance.

So for vulnerable creatures the damage is automatically multiplied once it comes into contact with the vulnerable creature (in terms of order, this happens first).

 

[xazil]

I have always applied it following the normal maths rules: Multiplication (vulnerability) and/or division (passed save for half) then addition and/or subtraction (resistance).

 

[nhl_1997]

Short answer:
No, there are not any official rules governing vulnerability and resistance to the same attack (at least none that anyone I know have found.)

Quick and easiest solution:
Pick an order and stick with it.

Rationalizations:
Well, rationalizations exist for both methods.

 

[Sejs]

Multiply, then reduce the larger ammount.

 

[Marimmar@Home]

Interesting to see that so many people multiply damage before subtracting resistances. Next session my players will encounter a frost giant cleric with protection from fire up and running. I can't see why a protection from energy fire spell would be less efficient for a cold type creature than a normal human. First the spell damage has to overcome the protective devices/spells, then the remaining damage will be increased by half.

~Marimmar