Munchkins vs. Powergamers?

[dpetroc]

Not sure if they are really separate or more parts of a scale running from "Damn the Stats, let's just have fun!" to your super powered epic ninja/pirate/fighter/cleric/archmage/druid/samurai.

I think you need to add another element to the matrix as well and incorporate play style into the spectrum. In my experience it seems that the higher on the munchkin/powergamer scale, the more their play resembles gaming in an MMORPG environment (level up! how much loot, plot? what plot?, interactions with npcs are rolls, not roleplaying etc.).

 

[SavageRobby]

I don't think the two are remotely related to each other.


Powergamers build strong characters within the confine of the rules. They may plan and plot out advancement, they may not. They optimize. They make sure to take the best possible abilities/edges/feats/skills in the best, most optimized manner. This style of play is totally legitimate (even if its not the way I enjoy playing).

Munchkins simply abuse the rules. They ask for (or demand) special cases. They try to bend or break the rules to fit whatever they want out of the current situation, with little or no regard for others. They'll misinterpret, miscontrue and worse to get what they want. No rule is approached the same way twice, unless its to their advantage. They don't care about the game, they care about being the best, the one with the most, the winner, etc.


No, those are two completely different things, not even on the same spectrum. All the "gaming types" might be munchkins, and in my experience, powergamers aren't even necessarily the most likely to be munchkins (I've seen plenty of the heavy dramatists do it too, in order to further their desired "story").

 

[cignus_pfaccari]

I'm an optimiser. You're a powergamer. He's a munchkin.

This is probably the truest thing I've read all day.

Brad

 

[Nifft]

I'm an optimiser. You're a powergamer. He's a munchkin.

QFT.

Cheers, -- N

 

[William drake]

Powergamer = Good
Munchkin = Bad

???

I'm not too sure I totally agree with the OP's definitions. If you throw an "Optimizer" into the mix, then things perhaps get even more grey.

IMO, munchkins, optimizers and powergamers are all under the same umbrella. The thought of having a character's primary abilities under-optimized gives such players a sense of unease.

Some further "definitions" for debate:

Optimizers generally don't care what other people do, they just take pride in their "creation". Fitting a concept of their character perfectly or at least very well is paramount.

Powergamers do care what other people do. They like to have their character be "the best" at something. In fact, almost nothing annoys a power gamer more than finding out that another player at the table has built a character using exactly the same concept. Even worse if their opponent's character has a greater "to hit". Their enjoyment is primarily derived from being the best at something (and perhaps more importantly: being seen to be the best).

Munchkin is a derogatory term for an optimizer or powergamer who annoys others in the group that they play in (or who would be annoying if they played in your group). As such, munchkin is a more relative than the other two. The spectrum of optimizer and powergamer is broad with those at the bottom end of each normally being titled "munchkins"

In the end, people enjoy playing how they play - and as long as they and the group that they play with are enjoying themselves, who cares.

Best Regards
Herremann the Wise

I agree

I think Munchkins are only labled ones they are disliked by the party, but in truth...they are the same as powergamers. I think one becomes a Munch when he or she is seen as a cheater, or getting to close to it that it bothers the players and the DM. Yet, it is the DM's ability to set things straight, and it is sometimes by the DM's weakness that nothing is done.

I see it this way.

If You build your charater with concept , unique utility, and RP'ing style in mind and without the need to have +18's or higher in every spot, or without needing the greastest HP...than I say your doing something right. No one should be blamed for playing an all-around tough if not powerful charcter as long as they know that they are not GODs and should not be seen as such; by the players, Dm or the other NPCS in the game.

Ego is the one thing that Players can deal without.

On the other side of this is.
If YOU have to have the highest (+) or the greatest weapon, or all the skills...or be the best at w/e it is the party is doing, than you get your enjoyment from all the wrong places and could be seen to be a Munch-Powergamer whos optimized his charcter to the point that the weight of it all should alone cause him to die.


Now, a few lines of thought so that the players who get away with such things don't think its all their fault.


If a player comes to you and he says.
"I want to play a Warforge, barbarian, berserker, Monk, Ninja....what'd think?"
And the DM says "ok" Its now the DM's fault and he should be now willing to you let you play the walking paradox that you are. *This example can be made many ways, but the point remains.*

Anyways. Game On

 

[Howndawg]

I don't think munchkins and powergamers are the same thing, but they can overlap.

Powergamers like to play powerful characters, plain and simple. They tend to min/max to get the most bang for their buck.

Munchkins don't "get it". There is something about roleplaying they just don't understand. Often they are powergamers as well, but not necessarily. While a non-munchkin powergamer will at least play a character with a valid conception, munchkins will do stuff like multiclass just to get the bonuses and not because multiclassing makes sense for their character. Because they don't get it, they will often spoil the game for the rest of the party, like attack townspeople just to loot the bodies and get experience and then wonder why the Duke's Elite guard slaughtered the entire party.


howndawg

 

[Odhanan]

An interesting read:

The Evolution of Munchkin, by Monte Cook.

 

[Quartz]

I'll venture that one of the most visible differences is that munchkins whine whereas powergamers don't.

 

[Aust Diamondew]

I would generally agree with the OPs assessment though most people use the terms interchangably. Quartz sums it up pretty well too.

And even under the OPs definitions powergamers could be bad for some groups, but those cases, I would think, are few and far between.

 

[Ambrus]

I generally agree with the the OP (and am glad that they generally coincide with my take on the differences between the two). On the other hand, I wouldn't have thought to add in the extra distinction of an Optimiser to the mix. What others have described as an optimizer is what I've come to associate with being a Powergamer. To me, the distinction between the two seems somewhat akin to splitting hairs.