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Mutants and Masterminds?

Retreater

Legend
I picked up the M&M 3rd edition Hero's Handbook, and I am perplexed.

The FLGS owner is begging me to run a supers game and I heard good things about M&M. I am not particularly a fan of comics (have seen most of the movies) and have never played a supers RPG. [I take that back; I did play a little old Palladium TMNT and one game of TSR's Marvel.]

I have no idea how to run a supers game, specifically Mutants and Masterminds. M&M has no stats for villains, supervillains, only a handful of mooks (dolphins, really?) No advice on encounter building, no detailed combat system, etc.

What the heck is this game?
 

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billd91

Not your screen monkey (he/him)
You probably want to check chapter 8 for action and combat. Look into chapter 9 for ideas on running the game.

As far as villains go, you'll either need to build your own or buy a compilation like one of the two volumes for DC Adventures. They're really useful.
Also, don't overlook the PC archetypes starting on page 34.
 

Dragonblade

Adventurer
Like many of the best supers RPGs, M&M takes a toolkit approach to superpowers. It provides the building blocks, but given the huge variety of possible powers, it only provides examples of the most iconic ones and encourages you to build your own.

The hero archetypes can double as pre-gen PCs, as example builds of the most iconic superhero types, and can even serve as villains.

The Game Master's Guide has some more archetypes specifically geared toward villains. Plus you can pick up the DC Adventures Heroes and Villains books. They have M&M 3e compatible builds of all the major heroes and villains of the DC universe. Also, you can visit the Roll Call forum on the M&M forums. There are tons of builds of virtually every Marvel or DC hero or villain you can imagine done by fans.

Likewise, GR has a series of Power Profile PDFs which discuss common power themes such as Radiation Powers, or Fire Powers, and they provide numerous samples of building different powers around those themes. There are some good examples in the Hero's Handbook too.

If you like the powers toolkit approach, but feel M&M is too simplified and want something much crunchier in terms of detailed combat engine and power construction, then HERO and Champions might work better for you.

If you want something even simpler than M&M, then ICONs might better for you. If you want a storygame that emphasizes troupe play and heavily relies on dissociated mechanics, then check out Marvel Heroic Roleplay. If you want a class and level system that conforms closer to traditional d20 style play, then check out Silver Age Sentinels d20. If you want a supers game that relies on class and levels but also has prepackaged power sets as opposed to ones you make yourself, then check out Heroes Unlimited which uses the same Palladium system as the old TMNT and Other Strangeness RPG.

M&M is one of, if not the best supers game out there in the way it combines flexibility, with simplicity, and ease of play. But its not for everyone depending on their tastes in supers games.
 


I picked up the M&M 3rd edition Hero's Handbook, and I am perplexed.

The FLGS owner is begging me to run a supers game and I heard good things about M&M. I am not particularly a fan of comics (have seen most of the movies) and have never played a supers RPG. [I take that back; I did play a little old Palladium TMNT and one game of TSR's Marvel.]

I have no idea how to run a supers game, specifically Mutants and Masterminds. M&M has no stats for villains, supervillains, only a handful of mooks (dolphins, really?) No advice on encounter building, no detailed combat system, etc.

What the heck is this game?

I'm really not impressed by M&M - I consider the whole approach to be fundamentally wrong for playing a supers game (in precisely the way GURPS is). It's an attempt to simulate a world with near-real world physics with superpowered individuals. And that's not how super-powered stories work. It's also fiddly. And again that's not how super-powered stories work. (To be fair M&M 2e is a vast improvement over M&M 1e in this respect). The reason M&M is successful is that it's the biggest of the d20 supers games - and therefore has appeal for D&D players.

My recommendations for a modern Supers game would be either Icons (FATE Supers) or the new Marvel Heroic Roleplaying (and I've seen [MENTION=3817]Cam Banks[/MENTION] on these boards) - both of which really are flexible systems with an attitude of "don't sweat the small stuff" and scene and plot are powerful. Probably Marvel Heroic although I haven't actually run either.
 

Dragonblade

Adventurer
I'm really not impressed by M&M - I consider the whole approach to be fundamentally wrong for playing a supers game (in precisely the way GURPS is). It's an attempt to simulate a world with near-real world physics with superpowered individuals. And that's not how super-powered stories work. It's also fiddly. And again that's not how super-powered stories work. (To be fair M&M 2e is a vast improvement over M&M 1e in this respect). The reason M&M is successful is that it's the biggest of the d20 supers games - and therefore has appeal for D&D players.

If you think M&M is fiddly, HERO must cause you a total anxiety attack. :) But seriously, I don't find M&M very simulationist. There is a lot of cinematic abstraction.

Aside from Hero points, you interact with the world through your character and his actions. In that sense the game is geared around playing superheroes in a world of superheroes. If there is a car on the street, and your PC is strong enough, you can pick it up and throw it at a villain. Easy peasy.

Whereas in Marvel Heroic, the game is geared around simulating a comic book. There are a lot of metagame oriented mechanics that allow the players to manipulate scenes and plot. If there is a car, you have follow specific rules about tagging it as an "asset" that your PC is allowed to use in that scene. Likewise, I remember reading about an absurd example on RPG.net about Daredevil's blindness not protecting him from sight based attacks unless the players spend the appropriate resource to activate it as an asset.

That example floored me. Daredevil is blind. Sight based attacks fail because he is blind. That's it. I don't like Marvel Heroic style play at all. But its good at what it does and its popular with people who like that sort of metagame scene manipulation. So its certainly worth checking out.
 

If you think M&M is fiddly, HERO must cause you a total anxiety attack. :) But seriously, I don't find M&M very simulationist. There is a lot of cinematic abstraction.

Not an anxiety attack. Merely a lot of eyerolling. I can cope with GURPS Vehicles if I need to.

Aside from Hero points, you interact with the world through your character and his actions. In that sense the game is geared around playing superheroes in a world of superheroes. If there is a car on the street, and your PC is strong enough, you can pick it up and throw it at a villain. Easy peasy.

You can do that in MHRP. It just doesn't do anything notably different from hitting them with your fists. And, as Empowered pointed out in one memorable scene, that's being generous to the car thrower. The right thing to do with a car is climb in and ram the bad guy.

Whereas in Marvel Heroic, the game is geared around simulating a comic book. There are a lot of metagame oriented mechanics that allow the players to manipulate scenes and plot. If there is a car, you have follow specific rules about tagging it as an "asset" that your PC is allowed to use in that scene.

Not at all. You can hit someone with a car without tagging it as an asset. If you want a bonus from throwing a car that's a stunt. If you want to get in the car and crash it into the villain that's probably a stunt (it might even be an asset and your next move is to drive back over it) - and is more effective than throwing the car.

If you want to use a car, that's normally cosmetic. If you want to get a one-shot bonus from a car, that's a stunt. Spend a plot point and add a d8 to your pool. If you're trying to escape and want to jack a car because you don't have superspeed or flight, that's an asset. Spend a turn to climb in the car, make a roll against the doom pool to jack it, and you've an asset for the rest of the scene as you turn your attempt to escape into a car chase.

Likewise, I remember reading about an absurd example on RPG.net about Daredevil's blindness not protecting him from sight based attacks unless the players spend the appropriate resource to activate it as an asset.

That example floored me. Daredevil is blind. Sight based attacks fail because he is blind. That's it. I don't like Marvel Heroic style play at all. But its good at what it does and its popular with people who like that sort of metagame scene manipulation. So its certainly worth checking out.

I remember that RPG.net thread. And the multiple interpretations. The one question I would raise is "What is a sight based attack?" Because I can't think of any explicitely sight based attacks from anyone (with the possible exception of Mysterio). This is an edge case, and one rule of writing a rules-light game is "don't sweat the small stuff". On the other hand I can think of attacks that involve the sense of sight - such as a telepathic illusion. So Daredevil could spend a plot point to say "Your illusion doesn't work on a blind man. Sure I can see it. That's the problem." Or again hypnosis. That dirty great spinning disk is a part of the attack - but only part of it. If Daredevil doesn't spend a plot point the words and the tone get him. If he does the hypnotic disk his fellow heroes are drooling at does nothing.
[MENTION=3817]Cam Banks[/MENTION], have I got this all right?
 

billd91

Not your screen monkey (he/him)
I'm really not impressed by M&M - I consider the whole approach to be fundamentally wrong for playing a supers game (in precisely the way GURPS is). It's an attempt to simulate a world with near-real world physics with superpowered individuals. And that's not how super-powered stories work. It's also fiddly. And again that's not how super-powered stories work. (To be fair M&M 2e is a vast improvement over M&M 1e in this respect). The reason M&M is successful is that it's the biggest of the d20 supers games - and therefore has appeal for D&D players.

My recommendations for a modern Supers game would be either Icons (FATE Supers) or the new Marvel Heroic Roleplaying (and I've seen [MENTION=3817]Cam Banks[/MENTION] on these boards) - both of which really are flexible systems with an attitude of "don't sweat the small stuff" and scene and plot are powerful. Probably Marvel Heroic although I haven't actually run either.

Fiddly? In character generation, maybe. But my first impression of Marvel's is that game's way too fiddly with dice at play time. Mutants and Masterminds, by comparison, can play very smoothly with just a d20 and a few poker chips to represent modifiers and hero points. And that's how I generally prefer my balance between smooth and fiddly - smooth on the run-time, fiddly on the build.
 

Fiddly? In character generation, maybe. But my first impression of Marvel's is that game's way too fiddly with dice at play time. Mutants and Masterminds, by comparison, can play very smoothly with just a d20 and a few poker chips to represent modifiers and hero points. And that's how I generally prefer my balance between smooth and fiddly - smooth on the run-time, fiddly on the build.

My preference is for smooth on the run-time and the build unless it's a genre where you want a lot of grit. And it may have been that I was playing a super-normal* last time I played M&M but I did not find it a smooth experience at all. MHRP appears to have much better "chunking" of how to resolve things and how to handle stunts and set difficulties.

* For those who don't know, a super-normal is someone like Batman or the Black Widow; technically no powers but who makes up for it with a whole lot of skill and training. In both GURPS and M&M this leads to a couple of dozen skills on your character sheet and having to pick the right one
 

Cam Banks

Adventurer
Daredevil's blindness is played up as a Special Effect and not a Limit precisely because it puts the power into the player's hands to turn a situation that may involve visual elements into one that Hornhead doesn't have to worry about. Now, in most cases, if the Watcher says "so the guy points his flash gun at you and goes *WZZT*" DD's player should be able to say, even without spending points, "Dude, a flash gun on a blind guy?" and that's that. The game makes it clear that if there's no outcome other than dumb failure or instant success, you shouldn't roll the dice.

However, take the hypnosis thing. Sure, that's a great use of PP to be immune to the hypno-lights. But if DD's player doesn't spend the point, then the hypnosis clearly operates on another level - and DD's other senses are EXTREMELY heightened, so there's a great out for why it affects him regardless of being blind.

Point to make here is that it's the player bringing this to the game, not a GM invoking some kind of limit or drawback. And if DD's player doesn't have Plot Points, he's been paying way too much attention to other things!

Cheers,
Cam
 

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