I just started surfing the web and came across this group. Reading through the ideas posted, I think there is some great stuff here! I'm currently taking a DMing break and am playing a 3.5 game. When I return to DMing I have been giving some serious consideration to trying a "3.5 Revisionist" game. I'd love to hear any thoughts on my ideas.
This is a list of things I have considered for a 3.5 revision, partly inspired by some of the things I liked about 4e. I've tried 4e and just can't get into it and keep going back to 3.5 wishing things were...different : )
Note - I have yet to actually play test any of this stuff; its mainly conceptualizing what my own 3.5 Revision would look like:
Biggest change - Saves and AC are gone.
4e almost did this - they hint at it by creating a flexible power system that has attributes attacking a defense. My thought is why have defenses as derivatives of attributes? Why not just use the attributes themselves -
Attacks: Strength, Intelligence, Charisma
Defense: Dexterity, Consitution, Wisdom
Then place all abilities on a Good / Average / Poor chart similar to current BABs. Each clas would have strengths and weaknesses in different attributes. Alternately use the 4e 1/2 level system with a bonus.
Melee becomes say Strength versus Dex rolls. If you like lots of dice, make them opposed d20s. If you want to speed things up, just make all Defenses +10.
Make a Decent AC = DR System
To compliment the above system, Armor needs to provide DR of some type as opposed to providing the target defense number. (Perhaps the system in the DMG works, never tried it)
Drop the 3.5 save progressions / magic DCs.
Why does magic have to use it's own system in 3.5. By this I mean the attack / defense thing is wholly separate from the way melee works. The "defense" (i.e. saves) chart is an entirely different beast that gets broken with multiclassing. The "attack" method is different with the whole thing being flipped backwards (defender rolls the d20 to save, while the attacker adds 10 to their static base number.)
Doing this you can perhaps better balance the two aspects (melee and magic) since they would now start from the same base. I can have a Wizard with a "BAB" or "B Magical AB" based on his Int. rolling attack rolls versus the appropriate Defense. It would be calculated juts like a fighter rolling a Str based attack roll versus an appropriate defense.
Admittedly, this "simplification" creates ALOT of spell revisions and fundamentally changes the magic system - we can now entertain the possibility of multiple attacks for spell casters for instance. Some spells are already setup for this such as Magic Missile where you gain more missiles / level - just make this a function of the multiple attacks. So there would be a monumental overhaul of the all spells implicit in this.
Skills Condensed
It just makes sense. Making people roll MS / Hide versus a single Stealth roll seems unnecessary. Yeah, sometimes you want a distinction between sight and hearing but really necessary all the time? Use Rope doesnt need its own skill, etc.
I could see maybe adding a few skills - control shape (add a limiting dimension to Wild Shape and Polymorph without completely reworking them cause they are a bit busted ATM) though it may be fine just making the transformation crreate an attack on the caster's Con defense.
Magic Bonuses for Armor / Weapons
Dump 'em. Another instance in 3.5 of "well we -almost- took the plunge." When they dropped the special defenses of "needs +x to penetrate DR" and went to just plain "magic" it could have opened the door to just having "magic" as a modifier much like a material - bonus to hardness and fixed bonus to dam and or to-hit. Since I haven't play tested this, I'm not sure if this is feasible, but it seems to me there are plenty of other ways to pile on bonuses in the game.
Keep in mind, I play and enjoy low magic campaigns to begin with. Throwing in the kitchen sink with every magic item, every splat book ever created seems to always be a recipe for breaking a game and endless rules debates IMO. So these ideas are probably geared more toward that.
This is a list of things I have considered for a 3.5 revision, partly inspired by some of the things I liked about 4e. I've tried 4e and just can't get into it and keep going back to 3.5 wishing things were...different : )
Note - I have yet to actually play test any of this stuff; its mainly conceptualizing what my own 3.5 Revision would look like:
Biggest change - Saves and AC are gone.
4e almost did this - they hint at it by creating a flexible power system that has attributes attacking a defense. My thought is why have defenses as derivatives of attributes? Why not just use the attributes themselves -
Attacks: Strength, Intelligence, Charisma
Defense: Dexterity, Consitution, Wisdom
Then place all abilities on a Good / Average / Poor chart similar to current BABs. Each clas would have strengths and weaknesses in different attributes. Alternately use the 4e 1/2 level system with a bonus.
Melee becomes say Strength versus Dex rolls. If you like lots of dice, make them opposed d20s. If you want to speed things up, just make all Defenses +10.
Make a Decent AC = DR System
To compliment the above system, Armor needs to provide DR of some type as opposed to providing the target defense number. (Perhaps the system in the DMG works, never tried it)
Drop the 3.5 save progressions / magic DCs.
Why does magic have to use it's own system in 3.5. By this I mean the attack / defense thing is wholly separate from the way melee works. The "defense" (i.e. saves) chart is an entirely different beast that gets broken with multiclassing. The "attack" method is different with the whole thing being flipped backwards (defender rolls the d20 to save, while the attacker adds 10 to their static base number.)
Doing this you can perhaps better balance the two aspects (melee and magic) since they would now start from the same base. I can have a Wizard with a "BAB" or "B Magical AB" based on his Int. rolling attack rolls versus the appropriate Defense. It would be calculated juts like a fighter rolling a Str based attack roll versus an appropriate defense.
Admittedly, this "simplification" creates ALOT of spell revisions and fundamentally changes the magic system - we can now entertain the possibility of multiple attacks for spell casters for instance. Some spells are already setup for this such as Magic Missile where you gain more missiles / level - just make this a function of the multiple attacks. So there would be a monumental overhaul of the all spells implicit in this.
Skills Condensed
It just makes sense. Making people roll MS / Hide versus a single Stealth roll seems unnecessary. Yeah, sometimes you want a distinction between sight and hearing but really necessary all the time? Use Rope doesnt need its own skill, etc.
I could see maybe adding a few skills - control shape (add a limiting dimension to Wild Shape and Polymorph without completely reworking them cause they are a bit busted ATM) though it may be fine just making the transformation crreate an attack on the caster's Con defense.
Magic Bonuses for Armor / Weapons
Dump 'em. Another instance in 3.5 of "well we -almost- took the plunge." When they dropped the special defenses of "needs +x to penetrate DR" and went to just plain "magic" it could have opened the door to just having "magic" as a modifier much like a material - bonus to hardness and fixed bonus to dam and or to-hit. Since I haven't play tested this, I'm not sure if this is feasible, but it seems to me there are plenty of other ways to pile on bonuses in the game.
Keep in mind, I play and enjoy low magic campaigns to begin with. Throwing in the kitchen sink with every magic item, every splat book ever created seems to always be a recipe for breaking a game and endless rules debates IMO. So these ideas are probably geared more toward that.
