My air elemental Familiar and me

[Quemar]

Alter self says: "The new form must be within one size category of your normal size.". Polymorph is as per alter self with noted changes... the noted changes don't override the referenced text from alter self, they just add an additional qualification for not polymorphing the target smaller than fine. So no polymorphing to tiny size from medium.

Additionally air elementals are roughly humanoid in stance (ie walk upright, not on all fours/sixes/eights/whatevers) so to serve as a mount it would need to be two size categories larger than you (see recent threads about goblins mounted on ogres, among others). So you'd need to be tiny, and then you'd need to enlarge your familiar to medium. Or you small, and it large. Either way, you'd need an alter self/polymorph followed by a reduce/enlarge on one party, and a enlarge/reduce on the other.

Or your 'greater reduce' + enlarge / 'greater enlarge' + reduce.

Well, that kind of puts a damper on it a bit. What is the difference of "serve as a mount" and just carrying me around? I was thinking of making a Exotic Military Saddle with a Lighten Load command, usable 2x per day. That way, he wouldn't be that weighted down. Especially if I'm 1'3" and 22 lbs (Reduce Person is half, greater is half again). Seeing as my air elemental can only carry 24.75 lbs or less in light encumberance, he would be almost to medium by carrying me.

BTW, I found the Lighten Load spell here: http://boards1.wizards.com/archive/index.php/t-328077.html. Is there a better spell than this? Or a more legit one?

Thanks for all the help!

 

[Liquidsabre]

Alter self says: "The new form must be within one size category of your normal size.". Polymorph is as per alter self with noted changes... the noted changes don't override the referenced text from alter self, they just add an additional qualification for not polymorphing the target smaller than fine. So no polymorphing to tiny size from medium.

Incorrect. In this case, we refer to the Polymorph text where it modifies the size of the form with: "You can't cause a subject to assume a form smaller than Fine..."

Last time I checked Tiny size was larger than Fine.

 

[Liquidsabre]

Except that my equipment would be unusable. Reduce has this on it's side:

"All equipment worn or carried by a creature is similarly reduced by the spell."

Nothing like shooting a tiny bow for a normal size impact, even if I have to get closer.

Ah good point. One problem with the Polymoprh spell is that it doesn't appear to change the size of equipment at all. Kind of a drawback for the Ol' polymorphed fighter that goes large and his equipment no longer quite suits him heh. Though the good news is, now you can use that wand as a lance!

Nothing like shooting a tiny bow for a normal size impact, even if I have to get closer.

Not sure what you mean here. A Tiny longbow would deal the damage of a Tiny size longbow (1d4) and not a Medium size longbow (1d8).

 

[Quemar]

Ah good point. One problem with the Polymoprh spell is that it doesn't appear to change the size of equipment at all. Kind of a drawback for the Ol' polymorphed fighter that goes large and his equipment no longer quite suits him heh. Though the good news is, now you can use that wand as a lance!



Not sure what you mean here. A Tiny longbow would deal the damage of a Tiny size longbow (1d4) and not a Medium size longbow (1d8).

From the SRD:

Any reduced item that leaves the reduced creature’s possession (including a projectile or thrown weapon) instantly returns to its normal size.

However, now that I read it again, this sentence seems to counter the first:

This means that thrown weapons deal their normal damage (projectiles deal damage based on the size of the weapon that fired them).

hmm...

 

[Saeviomagy]

Alter self says: "The new form must be within one size category of your normal size.". Polymorph is as per alter self with noted changes... the noted changes don't override the referenced text from alter self, they just add an additional qualification for not polymorphing the target smaller than fine. So no polymorphing to tiny size from medium.

Because that makes a whole lot of sense, that they added a new clause that has, basically, no effect.

I suppose you also take the tack that polymorph can only do 5 hd forms too? After all, 5hd is no more than caster level or 15hd, which is the limit for polymorph, so OBVIOUSLY we should apply the lower limit, because the higher limit has no effect...

 

[Quemar]

Equipment needed

Ok, I think I have it now. Here is the equipment list I would need to pull this off:

Exotic Saddle of Burden (medium creature)
Lightens the load of the medium sized mount as if by the Lighten Load spell cast as a 5th level caster. This saddle can be activated two times per day. Once activated, the mount is affected until removed or disabled.
Moderate transmutation; CL 9th; Craft Wondrous Item, Lighten Load; Price 7,200 gp;Weight 30 lb. - 288xp


Cloak of Greater Reduction
When activated, this cloak reduces the wearer's size as if by the Reduce Person spell. However, unlike the spell, the wearer can be reduced by up to 2 size categories. Thus, a medium sized humanoid could choose to be reduced to tiny size. All penalties and bonuses are multiplied by the number of size categories reduced. This cloak can be used two times per day. Once activated, the cloak is in affect until removed or disabled.
Moderate transmutation; CL 9th; Craft Wondrous Item, Reduce Person; Price 6,400 gp;Weight 1 lb. - 256xp


Patch of Enlargement (for lack of a better no space object)
When activated, this patch enlarges the wearer's size as if by the Enlarge Person spell. This patch can be used two times per day. Once activated, the patch is in affect until removed or disabled.
Moderate transmutation; CL 9th; Craft Wondrous Item, Enlarge Person; Price 1,600 gp;Weight 1 lb. - 64xp

Let me know if I'm near the target with these.
Thanks!

 

[Saeviomagy]

Ok, I think I have it now. Here is the equipment list I would need to pull this off:

Exotic Saddle of Burden (medium creature)
Lightens the load of the medium sized mount as if by the Lighten Load spell cast as a 5th level caster. This saddle can be activated two times per day. Once activated, the mount is affected until removed or disabled.
Moderate transmutation; CL 9th; Craft Wondrous Item, Lighten Load; Price 7,200 gp;Weight 30 lb. - 288xp


Cloak of Greater Reduction
When activated, this cloak reduces the wearer's size as if by the Reduce Person spell. However, unlike the spell, the wearer can be reduced by up to 2 size categories. Thus, a medium sized humanoid could choose to be reduced to tiny size. All penalties and bonuses are multiplied by the number of size categories reduced. This cloak can be used two times per day. Once activated, the cloak is in affect until removed or disabled.
Moderate transmutation; CL 9th; Craft Wondrous Item, Reduce Person; Price 6,400 gp;Weight 1 lb. - 256xp


Patch of Enlargement (for lack of a better no space object)
When activated, this patch enlarges the wearer's size as if by the Enlarge Person spell. This patch can be used two times per day. Once activated, the patch is in affect until removed or disabled.
Moderate transmutation; CL 9th; Craft Wondrous Item, Enlarge Person; Price 1,600 gp;Weight 1 lb. - 64xp

Let me know if I'm near the target with these.
Thanks!

The patch is in Effect.
The cloak is in Effect.

Beyond that, the patch is at least 4000 (1x1x2000x2) and the cloak should be at least 12000. I'd rank an enlarging item at significantly more. Creating an artificial "number of activations" on a continuous item doesn't really get you a price reduction.

 

[Diirk]

Because that makes a whole lot of sense, that they added a new clause that has, basically, no effect.

I suppose you also take the tack that polymorph can only do 5 hd forms too? After all, 5hd is no more than caster level or 15hd, which is the limit for polymorph, so OBVIOUSLY we should apply the lower limit, because the higher limit has no effect...

Ahh, but it does have an effect.. it means you can't polymorph a fine creature to smaller than fine

Your second argument is silly.. the 15hd cap clearly overrides the 5hd cap of alter self. There is nothing in polymorph to say 'polymorph can change your form to a creature of any size, but no smaller than fine.' Instead it just says 'you can't be smaller than fine' and refers you to alter self.

I guess it is open to interpretation a bit tho, which is why I hate spells referring other spells instead of just spelling out what they do independantly.

 

[ARandomGod]

The patch is in Effect.
The cloak is in Effect.

Beyond that, the patch is at least 4000 (1x1x2000x2) and the cloak should be at least 12000. I'd rank an enlarging item at significantly more. Creating an artificial "number of activations" on a continuous item doesn't really get you a price reduction.

Yea, I'm afraid that they would very likely cost more than that.

How much more at the moment I can't really say. (No time to think.)

 

[Quemar]

Yea, I'm afraid that they would very likely cost more than that.

How much more at the moment I can't really say. (No time to think.)

ah, the fine print:

2 If a continuous item has an effect based on a spell with a duration measured in rounds, multiply the cost by 4. If the duration of the spell is 1 minute/level, multiply the cost by 2, and if the duration is 10 minutes/level, multiply the cost by 1.5. If the spell has a 24-hour duration or greater, divide the cost in half.