My Brawler Fighter and how fellow players complain

[Crazy Jerome]

Is this a first in the history of EN World?!

Great, now you've got me waiting for the other shoe to drop.

 

[Saracenus]

Dear Passive-Aggressive Player (with alleged pretensions of being a DM),

The 80s called and they want their DMing style back. I mean, really? What you are proposing is what my friends and I did back in 7th grade when we were learning the game without any help.

Here is my counter, if you sit behind the screen with your outmoded "I did all this work, thus you will conform to my story" style, it is you who are sucking all the fun out of the game for your players.

Part of being a good DM is the learning to improvise when the players throw you a curve ball and the converse is encouraging folks to be creative and improvise as well. D&D is not a writer's exercise just for you, it is a group project where you are the just the lead on the team. Learn it, Love it or Leave it.

 

[Saracenus]

but because we all know it's cheesy.

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

Here, let me graphic-ize that for ya!

EDIT: Someone spot me XP for Neonchameleon (Princess Bride Ref) as I need to spread it around some more before I can...

 

[Crazy Jerome]

Who's this "We"? Because most of us who know the rules know that you can - it just isn't very effective (it doesn't get a proficiency bonus to hit).

Maybe he had a ferret in his pocket? A story teller ferret?

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

He should MC as a Barbarian, take the "Improvised Missile" feat, Belt of the Brawler, and Giantkind Gloves, then forever after walk into every combat without a single weapon on him.

"There are no dangerous weapons, only dangerous men." Robert Anson Heinlein

 

[Dannager]

If this incident breaks his immersion, then let me be the first to say that 4E may not be for him. He's got a lot ruder surprises in store, shortly. Though, if his immersion is broken this easily, then D&D is probably not for him.

If the idea of rocks being used to injure someone breaks his immersion, life is probably going to be too much for him.

 

[Dannager]

To Mark something you at least have to appear a threat in my opinion,

That is your opinion, but that opinion is not necessarily supported by the game. Appearing to be the biggest threat isn't a prerequisite for marking an enemy. Marks can be achieved through distraction, annoyance, magical compulsion, and any number of other tactics that have nothing to do with how much of a threat the enemy sees you as.

Can we please stop doing stuff like this? Defining the game for other people in clear opposition to its actual rules? That's what got the jerk player who is the subject of this thread into this mess in the first place.

 

[Robtheman]

To the original poster:

I agree with your position, the fact that your assailant was misinformed, and that he is an uptight prig. You may consider these issues as well. I'm not not trolling you - rather offering a perspective on why you seem to have royally pissed that guy off and, by implication in your post title, other players at the table.

Your original post was titled "my-brawler-fighter-and-how-fellow-players-complain." Ths implies that more than a single person was upset with your behavior. Based on the information you've provided only one person complained. Is that accurate or were there other players annoyed with your choice at the time? You were careful to frame yourself as a victim without explaining how you might have been disrupting the game. Certainly you were not wrong about the rules, however we learned from the immortal Lebowski that you can be right and still be an butt. I'm not calling you one, merely asking you if you were frustrating other people with the methods you used to argue your points and or the timing. Some things can wait until after the game.

The subtext of his longer e-mail (quoted in your second post) is that a serious and detailed world was being described and what he viewed as shenanigans interfered with that. I have no clue if that was the case but I suspect that is the personality of the other player coloring his perspective. Clearly he likes serious games and values recreation of reality in his game. Not my cup of tea, nor many of those on enworld.

That said, you're description of your actions (chuckling happilly that you could mark from range and arguing a point at the table that led to a book reference) would interrupt the flow of that type of encounter. Too much of that might annoy less uptight players as well. Is it possible you do other things that do qualify as cheesy? If so, you might have set yourself up for this. The story of the boy who cried wolf comes to mind.

If you want to maintain a positive relationship with these players you might need to bite your tongue from time to time. Consider why the other player is getting so upset. You might even ask him to talk briefly about it. Don't talk. Just listen. You might reach a middle ground and at the very least you'd know how to avoid pissing him off, if that matters to you. I can assure you that quoting a post on EnWorld will do nothing to improve your relationship with the other gamers, especially if they see themselves quoted on a popular forum. Asking for "expert" community support is awefully similar to rules lawyering. At the end of the day the only opinions that matter are those held by the players and GM at your table.

Good luck and hopefully you can have fun with your character and this group. For what it's worth I absolutely love brawlers!

 

[Bagpuss]

That is your opinion, but that opinion is not necessarily supported by the game. Appearing to be the biggest threat isn't a prerequisite for marking an enemy.

Never said it was.

Marks can be achieved through distraction, annoyance, magical compulsion, and any number of other tactics that have nothing to do with how much of a threat the enemy sees you as.

In the case of a fighter which is what we were talking about it comes from attacking, throwing a pebble that isn't going to do any damage doesn't really pass as an attack in my book. I suppose fair enough if a player wants to waste his standard action, throwing pebbles when he could be throwing rocks or daggers. They can, just don't see the point.

Can we please stop doing stuff like this? Defining the game for other people in clear opposition to its actual rules? That's what got the jerk player who is the subject of this thread into this mess in the first place.

 

[Ryujin]

Tossing a little pebble might not do damage, but it could certainly act as a distraction. I'd allow it, on that basis, as marking.