My DM just told me he fudges rolls....

[Twichyboy]

Hello all, ive just recently run into a problem that gas never occurred to me before, as I'm a longtime DM but a new player, my DM revealed to me after only one session of our new campaign that he fudges rolls to make combat more interesting

I quickly expressed my opinion that combat rolls should not fudged and asked him to not fudge mine

I now however am in a awkward position because I do not believe I can trust my DM to do so, who says he doesn't make the high level boss I poison make his save despite a rolled one? Whenever I go into combat does it really matter what I do or what roll if he's just going to make it more "interesting"?

Essentially I'm at a loss of what I should do, but I feel that in an instant all my interest in the game has been lost to a single sentence, and I can't exactly quit as these players and the dm are all my close friends and I'm kind ofa needed character

So what should I do about this? Also what are your views about fudging rolls? Just based on this all my future games as DM I plan on rolling my dice in the open, this solution doesn't work in this current situation however as we play online

 

[delericho]

It's a dirty little secret that almost every DM fudges sometimes. They might shave a few points off damage caused to drop a PC to -8 instead of -10, or have NPCs avoid using coup de grace attacks, or invisibly inflate villain hit points, or ignore a failed save vs poison, or...

Even DMs who try really hard not to fudge the dice almost all do so at some point. Very, very few DMs can honestly say they have never fudged anything. (And if you try running a game for a couple of months, you almost certainly will, too.)

The only thing is, we're not supposed to let the players know.

 

[Ringlerun]

As a DM i fudge dice rolls all the time. 99% is for the benefit of the players. There is nothing less heroic than entering the first room and having a party wipe from a few bad rolls on the players part.

And there is also nothing less heroic than to have the final climatic battle end in one round because of a failed save.

 

[Ahnehnois]

Where is it written that the DM is bound to the results of the dice?

The dice are an aid to the players and the DM, not the other way around. Most DMs explicitly fudge numbers now and then, and there are a lot of gray areas of interpretation even in combat. If the DM is doing this in an arbitrary and capricious fashion, it could be a problem, but then the problem is the DM's attitude towards you in general.

 

[Desdichado]

I now however am in a awkward position because I do not believe I can trust my DM to do so, who says he doesn't make the high level boss I poison make his save despite a rolled one? Whenever I go into combat does it really matter what I do or what roll if he's just going to make it more "interesting"?

That seems a little dramatic. Fudging doesn't usually mean making up all the events in combat whole cloth regardless of what the dice say or don't say. It means a little nudge here and there to make the game better.

Essentially I'm at a loss of what I should do, but I feel that in an instant all my interest in the game has been lost to a single sentence, and I can't exactly quit as these players and the dm are all my close friends and I'm kind ofa needed character

There's no such thing as a needed character. Personally, I'm of the opinion that the GM should bring a game suited to the player's he gets--regardless of what he gets--rather than try to force the group into a rigid, "balanced" party structure if they want to thrive. But even if your GM isn't of that opinion, there are always alternatives to a missing character. If the GM can't work around that, then he's a pretty poor GM in my opinion.

That said, I think if you leave in a huff because you want all dice out in the open or whatever, then I think you're the one being extreme. By all means do it if you really can't enjoy the game otherwise--life's too short to play games we don't enjoy--but you really might want to consider a bit of reasonable compromise.

So what should I do about this? Also what are your views about fudging rolls? Just based on this all my future games as DM I plan on rolling my dice in the open, this solution doesn't work in this current situation however as we play online

Fudging rolls is fine. In our group, we do it semi-frequently, and even openly. Part of this is an ongoing discussion about the poor balance of the Paizo adventure paths and how without fudging they can only successfully be played by really hardcore tactician style play, which we don't enjoy. So our GM fudges openly, telling us exactly what he's doing, while simultaneously griping about how crazy a particular encounter was designed.

When I run for the group, I fudge less, and certainly less openly. But at the same time, I make up a lot of stats on the fly anyway. In that kind of environment, I'm not even sure that fudging is always meaningful as a concept.

 

[IronWolf]

I think the vast majority of DMs fudge at some point or other. I try to limit my fudging and let the dice fall as they may. I am probably most guilty of adjusting HP on the fly, either throwing some extras at the critters or on other occasions reducing the number.

Usually it is because I have mis-gauged the encounter to one of too great difficulty. I learned when I made my return to DMing that sometimes it is better to fudge or make very poor tactical decisions on the critter's behalf than it is to slaughter the party because you thought a creater with 8 attacks and 15' reach was an appropriate challenge to a mid-lowish level party.

 

[Mercurius]

[MENTION=22424]delericho[/MENTION] said what I was going to say 100% - must spread XP first.

 

[JamesonCourage]

Well, I'd make sure to have a serious talk with the GM (which it sounds like you have). You shouldn't give him an ultimatum or anything (it's his game), but if he insists on fudging dice, I can understand not getting the same enjoyment out of combat (or other scenarios, if he fudges dice there, too).

I play with a group of close friends. If one started to run a game and started to fudge dice in combat, I'd probably make a character that wasn't focused on combat at all, because combat wouldn't be fun for me. I've come to love looking at the result of the dice, seeing the results, and shaking my head in amazement. There's something magical, to me (yes, it's very personal), about seeing amazing results when everything is on the up-and-up.

If he insists on fudging on other dice rolls, too, I'd probably have another talk, and this time I'd stop playing if it couldn't be resolved. He should at least be able to not fudge your rolls (which you've asked for). It's not like you've asked him to not fudge rolls for the others or anything. If you have more fun when your rolls aren't fudged, and he'll fudge rolls for others so they can have a more "interesting" combat (but not for you), then at worst you're risking your character every combat (which it sounds like it's what everyone is probably okay with).

If it was me, and I knew my rolls were getting fudged in and out of combat, I'd bow out, as I couldn't connect with the game. I'd be constantly pulled out of immersion, wondering if the GM is fudging rolls right now, or if I'm only here because of a certain "roll". Just my take, though.

Fudging dice is not an objectively bad thing. It's not my thing, but there's nothing wrong with it if others in the group like it. I'd just express to him that you really lose enjoyment when you feel your rolls are fudged, and that you'd love to love his game. Maybe suggest he use an online dice roller just for you? It's a little extra, but you're all close friends, so not too hard. Something like Online Dice Roller Home should be good enough for what you need.

I hope that helps. As always, play what you like

 

[steeldragons]

Hello all, ive just recently run into a problem that gas never occurred to me before, as I'm a longtime DM but a new player, my DM revealed to me after only one session of our new campaign that he fudges rolls to make combat more interesting

So what should I do about this?

Thank him profusely.

It's a dirty little secret that almost every DM fudges sometimes.
-snip-
The only thing is, we're not supposed to let the players know.

Delericho is correct. It is UNSPOKENABLE!

IDSS (International Dungeonmaster Secret Service) agents are en route right now to collect your DM for a "visit" with...the Council.

...You may want to start looking for a new DM...

--SD

 

[vagabundo]

How did you feel when you found out about Santa??

I think you should just ignore the comment. Don't think about it. Don't talk about it.

Fudging is like Fight Club.