D&D 3E/3.5 My first 4e run : It will be hard to quit 3.5.

[OgreBane99]

Drama should be left in the game, not between players. It's just a game, folks. I hate when that happens....

 

[functionciccio]

Introduction: I got some doubts and my players got mixed feelings. It started very bad, but after a heavy discussion, it went smooth and they got more involved.

Well, I've noticed that my players (who are usually very focused) look quite disinterested (or utterly disinterested, it depends) when I run (for a reason or another) a random adventure with random characters (like running a 4E demo, for example). I think that this shift in behaviour boils down to the fact that they're not playing their "beloved" characters. They simply don't care that much.

So my guess is that once they (your players) create their own 4E characters and start to play in your regular 4E campaign, everything will be ok.

I hope the same for me!

PS:
Like Cirex, English is not my first language. Forgive me if I made some mistakes!

 

[Cirex]

First of all, thanks for the kind comments, especially about my English. It gives me enough confidence to write more rants

Now, I talked with my players today. One of them is a lost cause. He sweared to never play 4e but still unable to say why he just doesn't like 4e. The two experienced players want to try their own characters and the less experienced player seems to be in love with the warlock, so everything is fine with him.

However, players are not very happy about the idea of having to start with 4e just when I get the books (it wasn't my plan anyways), but I may try to convert their characters to 4e. The hobgoblin Warblade could be turned into a fighter if Monster Manual has PC-rules for Hobgoblins. Kinda the same for the rogue replicant, we depend on the Monster Manual. The orc druid got the shaft...but since he loved the warlock so much, he may just play one.

So, my next move is wait patiently for Keep on Shadowfell and what people got to say about it, especially about leveling characters and stuff. I will show that information to my players and decide when to make the move.

 

[That One Guy]

Good read, and good English all around. Thanks for the review.

 

[hennebeck]

Not every game or every version is for every player.

If you all really really like magic weapons, then maybe 4e isn't the rigth version for you guys.
But it sounds like the majority do enjoy the game, so good luck.

And I'm sure it will be better for all when they play their own characters. Again, it sounds like you have some very unique characters in your group and playing a regular human cleric is probably unfun.

I did have a question, why did you think Magic users have less options then they did in 3.x?

 

[Xorn]

Something you might like to hear (great post by the way, and I was most hung up on the part where KFC delivers, too), is that in the podcast where they talked about magic items, it sounds like the default plan is to tone down the christmas tree effects, but that having a high fantasy, high magic item campaign is perfectly acceptable. I can't remember an exact quote, but they stated that outside of like magic weapons & armor (which have a large impact) you can really go crazy handing out other magic items and not unbalance your game. And if you like low magic items (or none), you can actually just give the characters a "veteran" bonus at the levels they should be getting +1 or +2 weapons, and have the same effect as magic swords and shields in your game, without the items.

 

[Surgoshan]

Once I got past the KFC delivery, I was struck by another piece of awesome. I'm going to start calling them salvation throws. It's just better.

 

[Irda Ranger]

Magical items are a bit toned down and what my players enjoy is surpass challenges having a wide array of magical items, wands, rings, hats, etc. for each thing.

While that's just weird to me (the "Christmas Tree" was oft hated, leading to changes in 4E), I think you'll be OK. Items have levels now which are guides to what level they should be given out (i.e., the flying carpet is a 17th level item because its appropriate for a 17th level group), but that you can hand out as many level-appropriate items as you want, if you care too. After all, it doesn't matter too much from a game balance point of view how many magic boots you have as long as you don't try to wear more than one at a time.

Once important powers are spent, they had little reason to use different powers.

This is where encounter design and varied environments play a big roll. After all, there's no class ability for "I kick the table over", but PCs should be encouraged to think outside the "what are my listed powers" box. Make sure your fights aren't in empty 10x10 rooms and whenever the PC thinks of something original, "Say 'Yes!'"

The same thing happens with NPCs, with I believe I will have to adapt to my style. If they face a human wizard, I don't expect the second wizard they fight to be the same.

As a good counter-example might be Westerns. Everyone's got either a rifle or a Colt pistol, and you could (in theory) reduce the fights down to a series of d20 rolls until someone runs out of HP, but it's so much more fun when people are swinging from chandeliers, sliding people down the bar, and getting thrown through windows into piles of manure. Make the most of your environment.

I'm sorry for the rant, but I usually don't write long posts here at Enworld, since I'm limited by the language. So, thanks for reading (or trying to ).

It was hardly a rant! I thought it was a well balanced post, and your English is quite good. For a little critical feedback (to help you, of course) I would only note the following:

1. "Saving" throws, not "salvation" throws. Even if Surgoshan likes it(), it's technically not correct. That's a D&D thing though, not an English thing.

2. "My friends got" should be "My friends have got", but the whole phrase ("My friends got little grasp of English") is a little awkward. We know what you mean, but it would probably be better to say "My friends are not very good at English", or less charitably, "My friends' English sucks".

But your English is certainly more than sufficient to post here at EN World, and you clearly put 10x more thought and time into your post than most do! Post more!

 

[Jack Colby]

If you choose to run "4e" with a few pages of culled-together notes from online instead of waiting for the actual rulebooks, this kind of thing is probably more likely to happen. It seems a lot of people are willing to judge 4e before the books hit... not sure why that is. Then again, some people fear things that are different than they are used to, and will react negatively as a defense mechanism. Nothing you can do about that except wait for them to decide whether they want to either accept the changes or never play the new edition again.

 

[Cirex]

Something you might like to hear (great post by the way, and I was most hung up on the part where KFC delivers, too), is that in the podcast where they talked about magic items, it sounds like the default plan is to tone down the christmas tree effects, but that having a high fantasy, high magic item campaign is perfectly acceptable. I can't remember an exact quote, but they stated that outside of like magic weapons & armor (which have a large impact) you can really go crazy handing out other magic items and not unbalance your game. And if you like low magic items (or none), you can actually just give the characters a "veteran" bonus at the levels they should be getting +1 or +2 weapons, and have the same effect as magic swords and shields in your game, without the items.

Yes but, have we seen a single wand, scepter or potion example? Not the kind of wand that grants a wizard a +2 to a single attack roll, but wands that mimic spells, like wand of mirror image or wand of cure light wounds (this one is certainly gone). That's the kind of items my players love to use, or at least, have available. One of them is influenciated by Jarlaxle, I'm sure and I can see why he likes it so much.


I bring Salvation [throws]!