D&D 5E My Gnoll, PC, Barbarian class

[Scott Steven Bell]

Gnoll
+2 Str +1 Dex
60' dark vision
carrion eater; adv vs. disease and poisons
rampage; after bringing an enemy to 0 health may as a bonus action move half movement to next enemy and bite for 1d4+ strength.
feral dash; gains +10' movement by running on all fours. may only do so vs bloodied or blooded enemies ie an archer that hit the Ripper with an arrow or one that is already injured.
bite; as a bonus action may make a bite attack vs a bloodied foe
bonus proficiency; survival or stealth



Flesh ripper path for barbarian
Primal; When not raging bite damage is increased to 1d6 and claw damage is added of 1d4 (if only claws and teeth are used)
Storm of teeth and claws; grants as a bonus action two off hand claw attacks and one bite (if main attack is only using his claw) when raging. Also during the rage the tooth and claw damage increases to 1d8 bite and 1d6 claw damage at 5th lvl, 1d10 and 1d8 at lvl 11, and 1d12 and 1d10 at lvl 17.
Rage of Yeenoghu; at 6th level immune to fear and charm
Presence of Yeenoghu; at 10th level a Flesh Ripper may roar, which acts as a fear spell to any enemy that can see or hear him within 30 feat. DC 8+proficiency bonus+ strength bonus. This effect lasts for 1 round per constitution bonus.
Rage of Yeenoghu; at 14th level as a reaction to being struck in melee a Flesh Ripper may make a retaliation attack with his bite and one claw attack.

 

[Thedip]

Just looking at the Gnoll it is far too powerful with no real disadvantages.

Let's compare it against a human,

You have +3 stat bonus in the stats that you want for a barbarian - a human gets 6 to stats that also include ones that will not fit in with desired class (+1 int, wis and char for a human barbarian). With the the variant human they are a bit closer but now only get 2x+1 ability score increase.

You get 60' darkvision, advantage vrs disease & poison, a bonus extra attack (when bloodied), a speed bonus (when bloodied), an extra attack and move bonus after killing something - A human gets nothing compared with this, the variant human gets a feat of choice but with the loss of ability points.

In terms of skills a gnoll gets a choice of 1 out of two - a human gets languages and the variant gets a choice of any skill as well as language.

With your gnoll, the only disadvantage (for a barbarian) is that they can't read or write common (gnoll smash!).

In my view, the race should be designed without a class in mind; gnoll ranger, gnoll sorcerer, gnoll shaman etc. would also exist.

If you look at a hyena, they have strong jaws but are not well build for speed or dexterity (their short back legs). They are not brave and only fight in packs - otherwise they are apt to run away.

I hope that this helps and remember that it is my opinion and should be considered with that view in mind.

 

[Scott Steven Bell]

I appreciate your views.

I think the +3 stat block is common. Most races get them. Some get 4. I also dont think the stats are just for barbarians but deffinately a melee race which they are.
Darkvision is normal for a predator.
the attack while bloodied and the movement attack cant be used the same round as they are both bonus actions. the rampage atatck is common amoung gnolls.
also the bite attack I thought was balanced as a feat instead gives the same thing but better.

maybe it will require tweaking though

 

[Tormyr]

This is what I would give a gnoll PC. The half-gnoll PC at my table had some slight modifications that I will explain below.
ASI: +2 Str, +1 Dex
Alignment: Usually chaotic evil
Speed: 30 feet
Darkvision: 60 feet
Bite: You are proficient in Bite attacks as a Strength-based melee attack that 1d4 + Str piercing damage
Rampage: Per the Gnoll trait (MM 163)
Language: Gnoll

Most of this is taken from the gnoll entry of the monster manual. The Strength is the main stat both in the MM and in the DMG. Int should not be the secondary stat as the DMG applies a -2 for gnoll NPCs. Really Dex is probably the best place for the secondary ASI as it is the only other positive stat on the gnoll.

My thoughts on exotic PC races are that they need to be as good or slightly worse than the PC races in the PHB. So the Gnoll PC race example here has a little less going on than the typical PC race. It can be argued that the Gnoll in the original post has more features than a typical PC race. The closest analog would be the half-orc which gets a skill proficiency, an extra chance to stay at 1 hp, and an extra damage die on a critical hit. The Gnoll in the original post gets a bonus proficiency, an optional speed boost, an opportunity at a bonus attack and speed boost, and a bite attack. It seems like just a bit too much.

In a previous adventure, one of my players had a druid who, based on a string of silly events, caught the eye of a healer in a tribe of Gnoll Aasimar that the party stumbled upon. After he disappeared for the night, the party moved on until at the end of the adventure he was called back because she was pregnant. When we started up our Age of Worms campaign, the player asked if he could play the half-gnoll son of his previous character. I made the following changes to the above gnoll template based on his PC's background:
Alignment: somewhere around chaotic good
Bite removed
Rampage changed to a weapon attack
Common language added.
When he wanted to use find steed to summon a Giant Hyena, I told him he could do that but it was actually a manifestation of part of his inner nature, and the Rampage feature would not be available while the steed was summoned.

The Barbarian archetype in the original post is basically a Berserker with some modifications. However the Flesh Ripper is significantly better in almost all areas:
Level 3: The Berserker gets a bonus attack at a significant cost (Exhaustion); The flesh ripper gets 3 attacks as a bonus action all the time while raging.
Level 6: Exactly the same
Level 10: The Berserker's frighten attack affects 1 creature, costs an action per round to keep up, is Charisma based (as a frighten action should be), and doesn't work on the same creature within 24 hours; The Flesh Ripper's frighten attack affects everyone in 30', is Strength based, and stays up for Constitution modifier number of rounds, and can be used on the same creature repeatedly.
Level 14: Berserker gets one weapon attack as a retaliation. Flesh ripper gets two attacks as a retaliation.

My version of the Flesh Ripper would look like:
Primal (Level 3): You are proficient in Claw attacks. It is a strength based attack that does 1d4+Strength slashing damage. Your Bite and Claw attack weapon die changes to a d6 at level 5, a d8 at level 11, and a d10 at level 17. While raging you may make a bonus attack with your Bite or Claw that follows the rules for Two Weapon Fighting.
Rage of Yeenoghu (Level 6): Duplicate Berserker level 6 feature
Presence of Yeenoghu (Level 10): Duplicate Berserker level 10 feature
Rage of Yeenoghu(Level 14): Duplicate Berserker level 14 feature but allow the 1 attack to be a weapon, Claw, or Bite attack.

This version of the Flesh Ripper is only slightly better than a Berserker. The bonus attack at level 3 can be used more often and with a smaller penalty (no ability modifier damage) than the Berserker. Any time a creature is reduced to 0 hp, the bonus attack from Rampage could be used with the full Strength damage added on rather than the bonus attack granted by Primal. Advancing the damage for the natural weapon attack like a monk allows the natural weapons to be used instead of regular weapons and is fine as long as the Flesh Ripper is not getting silly numbers of extra attacks.

 

[Scott Steven Bell]

Tormyr I liked your post.

Starting with the Ripper class,
I actually gave it more attacks because by using only his natural weapons he will be doing WAY less damage than a barbarian with a 2d6 great sword. The extra attack is meant to make up for the fact that he will not only be doing less base weapon damage but the odds of a claw fighter getting magic claws is a lot less than a magical great sword.

As for your racial changes I agree with you except for one thing. The adv vs poisons and disease was meant to represent the fact that a Gnoll eats everything and thus would be more resistant to posions and diseases. Perhaps a feat for this trait

 

[Tormyr]

Tormyr I liked your post.

Starting with the Ripper class,
I actually gave it more attacks because by using only his natural weapons he will be doing WAY less damage than a barbarian with a 2d6 great sword. The extra attack is meant to make up for the fact that he will not only be doing less base weapon damage but the odds of a claw fighter getting magic claws is a lot less than a magical great sword.

As for your racial changes I agree with you except for one thing. The adv vs poisons and disease was meant to represent the fact that a Gnoll eats everything and thus would be more resistant to posions and diseases. Perhaps a feat for this trait

While the gnoll has *ahem* questionable culinary habits, none of the gnolls in the MM or Volo's have this feature. That being said, my version was sparse on racial features. So this could easily be added. It would also work as a more limited version which only covers disease and poison that is ingested.

When comparing features on an exotic/homebrew race or class that has something fairly unique, I usually consider that uniqueness to cover some portion of any mechanical shortfall. I would also suggest just having the damage for the Bite and Claw attacks scale all the time and not require raging. As for the comparison of damage, the Berserker vs. Flesh Ripper looks something like this:

Berserker with greatsword
Level 1: 10 (2d6 + 3)
Level 3: 10 (2d6 + 3) sometimes an additional 10 if taking a point of exhaustion
Level 4: 11 (2d6 + 4) sometimes an additional 11 if taking a point of exhaustion
Level 5: 22 ((2d6 + 4) * 2) sometimes an additional 11 if taking a point of exhaustion
Level 8: 24 ((2d6 + 5) * 2) sometimes an additional 12 if taking a point of exhaustion

Original Flesh Ripper (only using natural attacks and no boosting natural weapon attacks from raging)
Level 1: Club 5 (1d4 + 3) sometimes additional 5 from from Rampage
Level 3: Claw 5 (1d4 + 3), bonus attack Claws and Bite 8 (1d4 * 2 + 1d6) for a total of 13
Level 4: Claw 6 (1d4 + 4), bonus attack Claws and Bite 8 (1d4 * 2 + 1d6) for a total of 14
Level 5: Claw 13 ((1d4 + 4) * 2), bonus attack Claws and Bite 8 (1d4 * 2 + 1d6) for a total of 21
Level 8: Claw 15 ((1d4 + 5) * 2), bonus attack Claws and Bite 8 (1d4 * 2 + 1d6) for a total of 23

Original Flesh Ripper (only using natural attacks and boosting natural weapon attacks from raging)
Level 1: 5 (1d4 + 3) sometimes additional 5 from from Rampage
Level 3: Claw 5 (1d4 + 3), bonus attack Claws and Bite 8 (1d4 * 2 + 1d6)) for a total of 13
Level 4: Claw 6 (1d4 + 4), bonus attack Claws and Bite 8 (1d4 * 2 + 1d6) for a total of 14
Level 5: Claw 15 ((1d6 + 4) * 2), bonus attack Claws and Bite 11 (1d6 * 2 + 1d8) for a total of 26
Level 8: Claw 17 ((1d6 + 5) * 2), bonus attack Claws and Bite 11 (1d6 * 2 + 1d8) for a total of 28
Level 11: Claw 19 ((1d8 + 5) * 2), bonus attack Claws and Bite 14 (1d8 * 2 + 1d10) for a total of 33
Level 17: Claw 21 ((1d10 + 5) * 2), bonus attack Claws and Bite 17 (1d10 * 2 + 1d12) for a total of 38

Looking at it slightly differently
Berserker; B with Frenzy;; Flesh Ripper; FR raging;; FR with Rampage; FR raging Rampage
Level 1: 10; N/A;; 5; 5;; 10; 10
Level 3: 10; 20;; 13; 13;; 11; 11
Level 4: 11; 22;; 14; 14;; 13; 13
Level 5: 22; 33;; 21; 26;; 18; 19
Level 8: 24; 36;; 23; 28;; 20; 21
Level 11: 24; 36;; 23; 33;; 20; 22
Level 17: 24; 36;; 23; 38;; 20; 23

The original Flesh Ripper keeps up with the Berserker with a greatsword just fine when neither are raging. When raging, the Flesh ripper consistently gets the damage the berserker can get without the need to take a point of exhaustion. This also removes the point of Rampage, as 3 attacks with no ability modifiers will always be as good or better than the one Bite from Rampage. The Flesh Ripper taking the off hand bonus attacks is as good or better than a Flesh Ripper raging and using Rampage.

Suggested Flesh Ripper (bonus attacks from raging)
Level 1: Club 5 (1d4 + 3) sometimes additional 5 from from Rampage
Level 3: Claw 5 (1d4 + 3), bonus attack Bite 2 (1d4) for a total of 7
Level 4: Claw 6 (1d4 + 4), bonus attack Bite 2 (1d4) for a total of 8
Level 5: Claw 15 ((1d6 + 4) * 2), bonus attack Bite 3 (1d6) for a total of 18
Level 8: Claw 17 ((1d6 + 5) * 2), bonus attack Bite 3 (1d6) for a total of 20
Level 11: Claw 19 ((1d8 + 5) * 2), bonus attack Bite 4 (1d8) for a total of 23
Level 17: Claw 21 ((1d10 + 5) * 2), bonus attack Bite 5 (1d10) for a total of 26

Each of those damage totals can be boosted by 3 to 5 if Rampage can be used rather than the bonus attack from raging. So the suggested Flesh Ripper would average 5 fewer points of damage across all levels when not raging and without Rampage. This goes away if rampage can be used, and the Flesh Ripper with Rampage actually pulls slightly ahead at higher levels (25 vs Berserker's 24 at level 8).

Even now the suggested Flesh Ripper can get its bonus attacks much more often when raging as it does not cost a point of exhaustion. In this case, the deficit is only 3-4 points of damage through level 8, and the Flesh Ripper pulls ahead at Level 17 (26 vs Berserker's 24).

Looking at the Berserker vs. the suggested Flesh Ripper
Berserker; B with Frenzy;; Flesh Ripper; FR raging; FR with Rampage
Level 1: 10; N/A;; 5; 5; 10
Level 3: 10; 20;; 5; 7; 10
Level 4: 11; 22;; 6; 8; 12
Level 5: 22; 33;; 15; 18; 22
Level 8: 24; 36;; 17; 20; 25
Level 11: 24; 36;; 19; 23; 28
Level 17: 24; 36;; 21; 26; 31

In this version, the Berserker does a little better, but the Flesh Ripper usually can take a bonus action through either raging or Rampage. This version is simpler to run as the damage die stays the same between the Bite and Claw attacks and whether or not you are raging. Rampage also actually has a use in this build. The Berserker is still the damage king when it uses Frenzy, but that comes at a steep price.

As for the Flesh Ripper not getting magic weapons, this would be a good time to crib the Level 6 magic weapon feature from the monk. It could replace either the current Level 6 or Level 10 Flesh Ripper feature.

So what adventure are you in that a gnoll PC actually works?

 

[Scott Steven Bell]

I had actually intended for the Flesh Ripper to get a level of exhaustion from using this added feature to his rage but having a short rest remove 1 level of exhaustion and a long rest remove 2.
I am totally going with the ingestion take on the poisons and disease angle.

We are in FR.
My Gnoll was in a Waterdeep freak show (so to speak). He was captured as a pup and brought up in this exhibitionary environment. A young Moon girl (barely 70) kept sneaking in to see (to her) a harmless animal chained up in a cage (when she saw him he was mostly hunched down into a ball, often with whip and slash marks). Some nights the animal would even speak in whispers to her. After a few weeks she put her thief skills to work. She managed to free the beast. To her surprise when he stepped out of the cage he towered a good two feet over her. His reflexes were sharp and muscles taught. Also, to her surprise he didnt lay a paw on her. She was a Moon elf and to him the Moon goddess sent her to grant him freedom. From this point on he waas the muscle to her growing Arcane Trickster skills.

You enter the bar. it is dark with the smell of wood smoke in the air. Ahh there is your contact. A Moon elf maiden sitting alone in the corner. You stride confidently towards her. Thinking perhaps you will feel more than just a few gold tonight. As you grab a seat and spin it artfull on one leg so you can sit on a backwards chair trying to impress the maiden you realize that perhaps she isnt as alone as you once thought. In the dark corner behind her you see a set of sickly yellow eyes gleeming down at you, shiny white teeth exposed under a snarling lip and a clawed hand peeling wood away from the post beside him. The wood just rolls out from under its claw, effortlessly. The beast is heavily cloaked making judging its size or even species difficult but you quickly come to one realization. You had best start your business and leave these two as fast as possible.