my group needs suggestions.

[krupintupple]

a group that i've started DMing is fairly new to 3.5e and with an old friend rejoining our sessions, they're wondering what'd make a 'good' group.

so far, they're a fighter, a warlock and a psion. i've suggested beguiler, ranger, or cleric.

any suggestions, builds or ideas?
thanks.

 

[Jeff Wilder]

Frankly, the choice depends on how flexible you're able or willing to be as a DM. If, for instance, you want to run one of the Dungeon Adventure Paths as written (and as written, they're all pretty brutal), a group pretty much must have a cleric, and a rogue is almost as vital. On the other hand, if you, as DM, are willing to customize encounters to the group, then any thought of what "fits" with the party can take a backseat to what the player wants to build and play. (Always keeping in mind the other players' fun, of course.)

 

[Keith Robinson]

Depends on what you're planning to run and at what level. At low levels, fighters are a good way for getting inexperienced players into the game, and an arcane spellcaster of some kind is normally required. Warlocks are pretty cool and can be fun to play too. Rogues can find certain types of games (ie undead campaigns) very challenging. Beguillers are the same - if they're up against a lot of foes that aren't afftected by their charms, then it seriously hampers their usefulness. If you're looking for an out-and-out healer, try the favored soul - though the cleric offers more flexibility. Sorcerers are also good for novice spellcasters

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

If they're really inexperienced, I might consider trying a small-scale test-run to see if they like what they've drawn up.

OTOH, you could also let them know you're willing to help them out with PC design, and that you're giving them a trial period in which, if they don't like their PCs, you can help them tweek or they can have a full mulligan.

 

[Shin Okada]

It all depends on what kind of adventure or campaign you are planning to run.

But if you ask about quick and dirty way to compose a "balanced" dungeon crawling troupe, well, the fastest and maybe the most important thing is to include,

1: A pure cleric (no multi-class)

and

2: Someone who can deal with traps (rogue, scout, ninja, beguiler, or someone multi-classed in them, etc.)

IMHO if you have those 2 characters in your party, the classes of other members are not so important.

Those 2 are "problem solvers". A Cleric is not a simple walking bandage. Basically, only cleric knows all the spells in one's class list and also has enough problem solving spells in one's class list.

Many official adventure modules of certain levels are made the presence of appropriately leveled cleric character in mind. Say, if that module is for level 2-3, the author does not hesitate to include some monster or trap which causes ability damages, because a cleric can cast Lessor Restoration. If a module is set for L11+, author may assume that at least one PC can cast Plane Shift spell. And so on.

Regarding the trap specialist, any party which commit dungeon crawling need one. Preferably someone with stone-cunning racial ability (Dwarf, Deep Halfling, etc,). He does not need to be a pure rogue though.

 

[werk]

Cleric, or some kind of healer.

 

[krupintupple]

thanks for the suggestions all!

i actually do take a fairly active role within the character creation, reminding the players what types of monsters they fought where, or what classes are good in certain realms or activities. i've also plainly said that they can get a mulligan, since they were kinda new to 3e in general, but they didn't want any freebies and declined.

i'm only concerned because one of them is fairly ... outspoken? and has been badgering the newer player to play cleric - which i'm agreeing with partially, but i'd rather hear what the player wants to play. i've suggested if he's so hell bent on a cleric, he could retire his character and roll a cleric and the new player can test the waters with whatever he likes, so he shut up fairly quickly.

would favoured soul be any good in this situation? i mean, it'd keep the spell list down, as well as give more uses per day, wouldn't it?

 

[Shin Okada]

would favoured soul be any good in this situation? i mean, it'd keep the spell list down, as well as give more uses per day, wouldn't it?

In my experience, a Favored Soul cannot be a true substitution for a cleric. A healer, maybe. But cannot be a problem/challenge solver as he does not know all the spells in the class list as a cleric does. And when he uses spells for attacks he tend to be weaker than a cleric, as he need 2 ability scores (Wis and Cha) for spellcasting. Thus, he tend to have much lower spell DC comparing to a cleric.

If the spells are chosen well, he can be a good buffer and healer. But the lack of Turning Undead means he cannot take Divine feats and this is another drawback. And FS lacks domain powers and spells, too.

Well, for a newbie, I'd rather let him play a cleric instead. While Favored Soul narrows the list of spells, it also burdens the newbie to not choosing wrong spells known. If he plays a cleric, he does not need to care about that part.

 

[Folly]

Really all the suggestions for cleric and rogue can be boiled down to able to heal & trapfinding.

Thus

Full healer: Cleric, Favored Soul, Healer
Partial healer: Druid, Psion/Psi Warrior

Trapfinding: Rogue, Scout, Spell Thief


I am sure there are other examples of both healers and trapfinders that I have missed.

 

[Folly]

Well, for a newbie, I'd rather let him play a cleric instead. While Favored Soul narrows the list of spells, it also burdens the newbie to not choosing wrong spells known. If he plays a cleric, he does not need to care about that part.

I completely agree. Managing memorizing spells and learning tougher spell conservation is far more forgiving then picking spells as a FS. For a new player a cleric is probably a better choice.

I think I have a more favorable opinion of the potential of the FS than Shin, but I will be the first to say that a few poor choices on spells with the FS and your boned.