SteveC
Doing the best imitation of myself
Actually we don't necessarily agree on this. I said that an optimized fighter will be ahead of a Warblade, but an average one will lag behind, in certain areas. This does not constitute a "massive break iin power consistency," any more than a bard does measured in terms of a cleric. Or a fighter does measured in terms of a cleric. There is a range of power that the D&D classes have in straight-up fights, and it can be a significant one. I think the discrepency in power between a Warblade and our fighter is less than the power levels between other core classes, and I'd be willing to play any of the core classes and don't feel I'd be under powered.BryonD said:There is a lot of latitude for you to quibble with the math and still leave the WB way out in front.
But we do agree, the WB is ahead of the fighter.
A massive break in power consistency is a problem regardless of the designers statements.
I was once told by a designer that his class was perfectly well balanced, and then that very designer turned around and said that it wasn't his fault that his class was a battle axe and the sorcerer was a dagger. (in the very same post)
I don't believe you. The Warblade really doesn't have class features that make him a good archer...at least that I saw. I have been known to miss things, so if you're thinking of something specific, let me know and I will certainly retract that statement.I don't see relegating the fighter to archer as an acceptable solution.
Plus, A warbladeX/fighter1 will pretty much kick the butt of a fighterX+1 as an archer.
A Warblade can also make good feat selections (he does get several bonus himself) AND he can make good manuever selections AS WELL, and many of the manuevers offer the same or better options that the fighter gains through feats.
A Warblade can certainly make good feat selections, but he must pick from a static list that will never change, at least for his bonus feats. The bonus feats he can pick are pretty "meh," you have combat reflexes, improved initiative and the save boosting feats...not exactly what most builds rely on to be uber. Combat Reflexes is nice, but that marks you as a fighter with a higher than average dex, which means fewer points in other ability scores. The Warblade maneuver selection is really the classes bread and butter, but I have to say again that there are some nice abilities (who wouldn't take +100 HP on a melee attack?) but they are limited in the ways I've been talking about earlier. A fully tricked out melee character with the feats from the PHB II and tactical feats can be just as effective in melee.
I think we're actually not that far from agreeing on this class (if you can believe that after all that I've written). I think the one CRITICAL issue for the Warblade is how often he can get maneuvers back. It seems like there may not be enough of an opportunity cost to recovering maneuvers. I'll eventually see it in play, and I may make some adjustments at that point. Frankly, I'd advise you and others to try the class and make adjustments if it actually works out to be overpowed in practice, rather than just in theory.
I'd make the same suggestion if a player wanted to play a pure bard in a game with twinked out characters, but in the other direction.
--Steve