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My latest gaming session and moral quandry-help (Long)

neg

Explorer
I just finished a long gaming session that has left me drained and in a moral quandary with my relatively new character. I thought I might post the goings ons to get some opinions and feedback as I need to come up with a resolution/solution that works, and yet stays true to my character and alignment. This is long so bear with me:

Campaign Background: Outlaw Campaign (homebrew). Characters must all be wanted for crimes of whatever nature. They can be falsely accused or actual criminals, it matters not, but they all must have been captured at the conclusion of their background so the campaign can begin. Any alignment is on the table. This is new for us as we usually play non-evil characters. No one discussed alignments ahead of time. We all agreed to play the characters and hold no personal vendetta against other players. “Play your character, don’t hate the player”.

Character Background: After too many thief characters I decide to play a front line fighter but with the Exoticist class from Dragon 310. Basically you sacrifice all martial proficiencies for 4 Exotic Weapon proficiencies. I took large one handed damaging weapons. Anyway, my character is ex-military. I was a member of a trained troupe called the Siege Breakers and we were trained to handle arcane spell casters and kill them. In this campaign arcane spell casters are outlawed and hunted and killed on sight. I was posted at a town our country had seized in war and was under martial law. We were a police force and not a combat force and I grew distasteful of the raping, pillaging, and abuse that was forced upon the occupied populace by the soldiers in general and my troupe in particular. Troubles escalated and I knew I would have an “accident” if I remained. So I fled, escaped for a week before I was eventually captured and was on my way to the capitol where I was to be tried for treason, and surely killed.
Campaign begins.

My alignment is Chaotic Good.


Campaign to date: We are being transported to the capitol when our criminal caravan is attacked and we managed to escape. The attack is for political reasons and to free specific prisoners. Details are vague as we flee. Over the course of a week we are pursed by various forces and manage to become equipped enough to survive. We enter a town that is a safe haven for criminals and has no established rule of law. Practically a frontier town where the strongest survive. Needing further equipment and some spare change we agree (mistake #1) to work for an illithid. He hires us to dispose of some duregar that are causing some problems for him and his buddies. We journey to the Underdark below the city and manage to find (after a few weeks) where the duregar are located. At the end of last session we have entered the burial chambers of the dark dwarves and we just killed a wight like creature that succeeded in giving me one negative level.

The cast: Monk (good aligned for sure, Lawful? Chaotic?) Fighter/Priest (Neutral?) Necromancer (not evil enough yet), Priest of a god of trickery and thieves (evil and subtle), rogue (evil and worships the same god of trickery and thieves). Plus my fighter, we are all second level.

Today’s Session: After we do some traveling to find more of the duregar we break for lunch as players and eat. Out of the game we agree to cast secret ballots and vote for a party leader. Somehow I get 50% of the vote. Basically this was to help the DM talked to one player for party decisions and the leader has no decisive role, but I am it whatever “it” is. Anyway we get in way over our heads, and we get either killed or captured by the drow and duregar they we encounter. Those killed (monk and myself) are resurrected. We as a group are stripped of all gear and are sold into slavery. We spend 7 months working hard labor for various owners in the Underdark until we are sold to humans who take us to the surface. They take to sea and move us to the Southern Continent. Before landfall the ship encounters a storm that snaps it in half, killing many, but somehow some of the crew and our party get washed ashore (yes poetic licence, but why stop a campaign that has yet to really start, this was just our 3rd session).

We again purchase some minor goods and get employed by a caravan trader who wants us to negotiate passage from some bee creatures. Either negotiate safe passage for all caravans, or eliminate them. He agrees to supply us with some arms and armor, but will only pay a small sum on completion of the task. These bee creatures have attacked and killed many caravans and their guards.

Now before I go on, just a quick party note. No conflicts, everyone is passing cures and heals around fairly freely. Most everyone has been dropped unconscious at some point and been revived by someone, so we are all pretty buddy buddy. The evil priest of the trickery god makes some evil asides but we are not really conflicting alignment wise or action wise at all. Nothing untoward has occured to date.

We set out and do find the bee creatures. They are winged elves with stingers of some kind and
were hesitant to approach us. The necromancer and I enter into some negotiations with 3 of these creatures. As the parley continues, the remainder of the party steps forward to hear the talks and the goings on. Weapons are drawn and cocked, but no one is hostile.

Turns out the bee creatures have been driven from their homelands two weeks south of this canyon where they now reside. There are not many left, how many we don’t know. But they have claimed the area as theirs and are defending it as such. They have been attacked by caravans and have decimated enough to warrant our investigation. They appear to just want to be left alone and we are finding it difficult to negotiate a peace even though the elf-bees are non-violent by nature, or so they claim. The man who hired us said he might pay a tithe of 2 or 3 sp per wagon for safe passage. The elf-bees have no real concept of money nor any real needs, but they do ask for a bolt of silk per caravan. There is a vast difference between a single wagon and a whole caravan. This silk bolt is approximately 100 gp. We are far away from a resolution but we have some numbers on the table.

That is when the evil priest whispers to the thief to shoot his crossbow at a elf-bee. Now granted, the thief said during our lunch time that as a follower of the god of thieves, he would do whatever the priest ask of him, but we seemed to be making headway into a situation that was being roleplayed well in a session that saw lots of combat already.

So, he shoots, and kills an elf-bee quickly. It is on. Reinforcements come to back up the drones that we were negotiating with and the have crappy AC but lots of hit points. Oh and they hit for a ton of damage. The DM was rolling so well this day he rolled in front of us to prove he wasn’t making this stuff up. For the whole day, we rolled 12 natural 20's, but confirmed only 2. Still he was AMAZING. The thief and evil cleric go down in round 2, unconscious and bleeding out. Monk goes down next round, we kill a few, the necromancer stabilizes the thief and evil cleric. Necromancer goes down, only a few enemies left, Fighter/priest go down. One on one, me and a soldier bee-elf. He has 1 hp, I have 9 but he has been dishing out incredible damage. One hit decides the fight. I get lucky and beat him to the punch. I stabilize the remaining characters and drag them into a cave. End of session.

My character is furious at the thief and cleric for this. The necromancer is unhappy, but had been saved by both and felt he needed to stabilize them. The fighter/priest hesitated in combat and waited to be attacked first so he had misgivings. The monk was equally angered by the loss of the negotiating opportunity. He used subdual damage in the combat.

Still everyone is unconscious. I am Chaotic Good, the party leader, and I have 100 feet of rope and opportunity. Two characters are probably Lawful Evil and diametrically opposed in alignment to me. I am trying to figure out something that fleshes out my character, fits with his repulsion to the atrocities that he has seen as a soldier. However I have survived to this point with this group, I have fought, bleed, been level drained (yes it became permanent), died, resurrected (loss of 1 con point, lousy day for the fighter), and sold into slavery for over 7 months with these people. Now a morale quandary is present.

We still think elf-bees are in the area, they talked about a queen, so furthering splintering the party could doom us all.

I have come down from the emotions and am trying to be logical and trying to keep the party together. However I am finding it difficult. I am thinking of tying up the thief and evil cleric with rope. Then I will wait until all are awake and asked that a party vote be made. Vote me out, and I will conclude this mission with you, for the benefit of the group, if you so choose, and then leave the group, or I will immediately leave the group. Or vote them out and we leave them tied up with a dagger in one of their hands so they can get free.

What would you do? I am looking to get feedback, ideas, and thoughts. Ask questions if you want, I will reply.

Hope you have some fun turning this one over. See if you can come up with something that keeps us together but stays true to alignment and background.

-neg
 

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JimAde

First Post
Ok. That is a tough one.

I think parties of such mixed alignment, properly role-played (as it sounds like this is) are a bad idea, but that's not really relevant to your current problem.

Were these new acquaintances, I'd say just waste 'em. But given the characters' history, I would tie them up, stay with them long enough to make sure the cleric can get some healing spells, and leave as you proposed. Whoever wants to come along can, whoever wants to stay with the evil ones can. I suspect somebody has character generation in their future :)

One thing: is it possible they were magically influenced? I'm not proposing your character act stupid. I find it strange is that your character spent so much time with these people and never saw this kind of behavior before. That would seem to indicate it's non-standard for them.

By the way, unless you're using a house rule the monk has to be lawful. So it sounds like he's lawful good.
 

Nifft

Penguin Herder
Offer them to the elf-bees for justice, since they started the battle by murdering an elf-bee in cold blood. This allows the evil PCs to do some RP'ing, but not from a position of abusable power. If they talk themselves out of punishment, good for them. If they don't, oh well, time for some new, hopefully non-evil PCs.

In the mean time, you can get back to negotiating with the elf-bees, but you will probably have to give them something of value to make up for the lost elf-bees -- unless they're able to Raise Dead themselves.

-- N
 

Bendris Noulg

First Post
The problem I see here is that the GM hasn't entered any unifying agent to build party cohesiveness. I've gotten multi-alignment groups to work before, and even all Evil parties, but they all had one major ingrediant: A reason to work together (and, where Evil PCs are concerned, a reason to follow another person regardless of their alignment).

Once a unifying agent (or a stong leader) is identified, then the players themselves tend to formulate a standard MO that allows them to advance in the world as a team. Until then, disorder and chaos are about all you're going to get.

Unfortunately, I don't see anything like that above; rather, the GM has allowed the formation of a party that has little in common other than survival, and the need to depend on one another ended after you hit the first town (in theory, the only reason that this group is still together is because you, as players, decided to stay together for the game's sake as it's more likely that the PC's in-character choice actually would have been to split).

Now, at the point you're at, I wouldn't call for a vote at all; I'd leave them tied up, but with the knife some 10' away. Make them work for it, and give you and the others a good head start in case the two start thinking about vengeful intentions. Don't leave them without supplies (you are Good, after all), but make sure they don't have as many day's worth as the rest of the group; If they do decide to follow, they will have to stop and get supplies sooner than you, and at greater cost to keep up. All this, of course, intended to make not following you worth it, although if it makes you more comfortable, take the Cleric's holy symbol (one more thing he'll need to find and aquire).
 

JiffyPopTart

Bree-Yark
Part of the "price" of being evil is the possibility that your evilness makes you one to leave behind when it goes to far. Its not really right to let the evildoers off the hook just because they are PC's. Otherwise you would have to let ALL the evildoers off the hook, not just these two.

I think the best suggestion, and the one I was going to say, is to tie up the two responsible and turn them over to the bees to salvage the peace. At that point the DM can figure out a way to save their guys if they are worth saving or else the characters are gone and need to be replaced.

If you CHOOSE to do overtly evil things as a character, you choose to suck up the consequences.

DS
 

Either turn them over to the bees, or mete out your own form of justice. You are Chaotic Good, after all, and would tend to value your own moral judgement rather than that of others. Turning them over to the bees could be viewed as allowing the persons directly hurt by the evil characters to decide their fate, though. Either way, I doubt a character with the strong moral convinctions you've indicated would simply let two murderers go free, even if they were allies at one time.
 

ciaran00

Explorer
Sabathius42 said:
Part of the "price" of being evil is the possibility that your evilness makes you one to leave behind when it goes to far. Its not really right to let the evildoers off the hook just because they are PC's. Otherwise you would have to let ALL the evildoers off the hook, not just these two.

I think the best suggestion, and the one I was going to say, is to tie up the two responsible and turn them over to the bees to salvage the peace. At that point the DM can figure out a way to save their guys if they are worth saving or else the characters are gone and need to be replaced.

If you CHOOSE to do overtly evil things as a character, you choose to suck up the consequences.
DS
Right. And it's "ok" for evil doers to kill other PCs just to satisfy their alignment right? What are you talking about? PCs need to be ultimately treated differently because the premise of getting together and playing d&d is having fun. God forbid that you get your friend to write up a new character SOLELY because you decided to adhere to strict alignment.

An evil PC should be just as susceptible to outright punishment as a good PC should be to getting his throat slit in his sleep.

For mixed parties, I advise both alignment extremes to find a legitimate reason for working together (to avoid the consequence of drawing up a new party that wouldn't ruin gameplay as much as the current one).

The good guys should bend as much as the bad ones.

ciaran
 
Last edited:

Yes, well, the problem seems to be that the Evil characters didn't bend, by breaking the truce and attacking the insectile elves. Without even consulting the rest of the party, mind you. The Evil characters broke (or attempted to break) any bond they may have formed with the other party members, and they will have to accept the consequences of those actions.
 

neg

Explorer
Further info

First, thanks for everyone who did take the time to read my post and bring some thoughtful answers to the table. This board is awesome for such things.

Some answers:

JimAde: As far as I know, there were no magical influences in play. Everyone was of sound mind at the time.

Nifft: Sadly, we have literally nothing to offer the elf-bees to continue negotiating. Most of the equipment we own was lent to us by the caravan master. I have 14 sp and 8 cp to my name. All I have of possible value is the other PC's.

Again, there are more of these things out there and I am not sure that negotiations are possible, we may be beyond that at this point. We may need everyone just to get out of the canyon alive.

Bandris Noulg: Your mentioning of a unifying theme was what kept the DM away from any evil campaign to begin with. The unifier to date has been survival. When we entered the lawless town, the town was raided by the military soon after our arrival. It took effort by everyone to survive those encounters. I rescued the thief. The evil cleric stablized the necro. The monk rescued the thief. We were very much driven by the need to stick together to make it.

Then we went to the Underdark and that was further reinforced. We were constantly travelling great distances and worried about food and light sources. We dreaded not completing the mission and returning to 3 angry illithids but this mission seemed way beyond our abilities.

Then we were slaves for 7 months, granted that is hard to convey in real terms, but one must imagine the consequences that go along with that.

The DM has been incredibly open with what we want to do. And I think he is a very good and competent GM. He can roll with the punches quite well. I think the theme of survival was present in all 3 long gaming sessions we have had to date. He is willing to discuss rulings and decisions very freely.

Sabathius42: Funny you and others mention it, but I told this whole situation to my girlfriend over dinner as I was obviously preoccupied (yes I am that much of a geek, and yet she still loves me) and she said the same thing: give them to the elf-bees.

I think that either I will be making a new character, or the thief and evil priest will be, if I give them to the elf-bees. Not sure how this all might play out. I might have a chat with the DM and see what he thinks would work best without the game getting out of hand.

Sadly it seems that no one can think of a way that we can all "just get along". Thanks again and keep the ideas coming.

-neg
 

neg

Explorer
One more thing

Oh and I meant to mention this twice now. We asked the two characters what they were thinking after the battle.

The evil priest said that there was no way we were going to be able to negotiatiate a settlement between the two sides. The disparity between the two sides financially was too great and he wanted to get the drop on the elf-bees since the opportunity presented himself.

The thief, playing a lamb to the evil priest's shephard basically said "he told me too."

So now you have a little of both sides.

-neg
 

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