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My minion rules

I'm sure this has been done to death, but here's my take on minions.

'Minion' is a template applied to any non-Elite and non-Solo creature. It adds the Minion Weakness power:

Minion Weakness

1) A critical hit against a minion automatically reduces it to 0 hit points.

2) At the end of an opponent's turn, any minion it has damaged must make a saving throw.

Success: The minion suffers the standard effect from the attack.
Failure: The minion is reduced to 0 hit points.

3) If the minion is suffering from ongoing damage at the beginning of its turn, it must make a saving throw.

Success: The minion suffers the ongoing damage.
Failure: The minion is reduced to 0 hit points.

Converting existing Minion monsters: Give them hit points as per p.184 of the DMG and assign them the template decribed above.
 

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Sporemine

First Post
Interesting idea but I think it will unbalance combat too much. You might want to try these rules for "elite minions", minions that are worth 1/2 the exp or a normal monster, opposed to a normal minion that's worth 1/4.

Kudos

-Sporemine
 

NotAYakk

Legend
A goal of minions is that they be bookkeeping-light, and have fast turns.

This is no easier bookkeeping wise than a normal monster.
 

Sporemine

First Post
A goal of minions is that they be bookkeeping-light, and have fast turns.

This is no easier bookkeeping wise than a normal monster.

Good point, I thinkI agree

Why did you make these rules in the first place Ulorian? I think they slow down combat.

Kudos

-Sporemine
 

Interesting idea but I think it will unbalance combat too much. You might want to try these rules for "elite minions", minions that are worth 1/2 the exp or a normal monster, opposed to a normal minion that's worth 1/4.
I knew I forgot to mention something! I actually use 1/3 xp, but 1/2 could work too. As a side note, I find that minions under RAW are not worth 1/4 xp, but closer to 1/6 xp or even 1/8 xp.

Interesting idea to have these minion rules co-exist with the RAW minion rules. I was using my rules as a replacement, but I'll give this some thought. By combining the two, you could have combats with really large numbers of challenging foes without overwhelming the party.

A goal of minions is that they be bookkeeping-light, and have fast turns.

This is no easier bookkeeping wise than a normal monster.

Good point, I thinkI agree

Why did you make these rules in the first place Ulorian? I think they slow down combat.
Do my minion rules speed up bookkeeping? Absolutely not. These minions are roughly as much work to manage as a standard monster: the 'death' saving throws are more dice rolls than a standard monster requires, but that's balanced by the fact that they die more quickly. Although faster bookkeeping was one design goal, the 4E design team's overarching paradigm was to create a type of monster with attacks/defenses matched to a party's level that could be included in an encounter in large numbers, and my rules achieve this.

Although a great concept, the RAW minion rules just don't work in my opinion. I DMed a party for 8 months using the RAW rules, and in every combat involving minions, things unfolded the same way:

1) Party sees an encounter with more than 5 or 6 opponents. "Oho! Minions!" The dragonborn Warlord breaks out his breath weapon while the Swordmage readies his Flame Cyclone and the two Rangers prep Twin Strike.
2) After 2 rounds, the minions are generally gone, leaving the non-minion foes in the encounter outnumbered and ripe for the picking.

Result: an unsatisfying combat whose challenge level is far less than the total xp it yields.

The main problems with RAW minions:

1) Ineffective. RAW minions deal low damage when compared to standard monsters of their level, with generally no rider effects, which standard monsters often/usually have. As a result, even large groups of minions don't tax a party's resources.

* Note: MM2 addresses this: minion damage is higher and minions often have secondary effects for their attacks.

2) One hit and die.

This promotes metagame thinking in the PCs. "This monster went down in one hit! I can thus rely on all monsters that look like this one to also go down in one hit! Break out the area attacks!"

A corollary of 'one hit and die' is that area attacks (or any attack that targets multiple opponents) are far too effective at handling minions.

If minions are close together, they might as well not have been present in the encounter (i.e. one or two attacks will clear them from the board). This forces the DM to metagame when setting up the encounter by having the minions attack in waves, from different parts of the map, by having some use ranged attacks, etc. so that the PCs have to use more attacks to tag them all.
 

Mesh Hong

First Post
Its not easy being a minion. You have no name and your job description reads "die in the first round of combat", if a Warlock looks at you then you die, if an area effect goes off somewhere near you you die, if you are lucky enough to have an attack and its against a rogue you miss and die. If you are a minion accept the fact that somewhere, someone has already dug your grave.........if you are lucky.

As a DM I have come to accept that minions are there to die, their job is to let the players feel good about their big flash area attack powers. There is nothing wrong with that, let the players kill the minions.

In my experience about 1 in 4 melee minions gets 1 attack in combat before death. This can be increased by not having all the minions charging in at the PCs and bunching up ready to be blasted with burst attacks. I am not really bothered about starting a "how to use minions" thread but I will repeat the system I use for minion xp.

minion level 1 to 5 : 4 minions = 1 standard creature
minion level 6 to 10 : 5 minions = 1 standard creature
minion level 11 to 15 : 6 minions = 1 standard creature
minion level 16 to 20 : 7 minions = 1 standard creature
minion level 21 to 25 : 8 minions = 1 standard creature
minion level 26 to 30 : 9 minions = 1 standard creature

and from experience I fully endorse the MM2 approach of making minions do more damage, usually about half dice amount + usual ability bonus.

Do not grieve for the minion, it doesn't know any better. Remember you are the evil overlord who sends these worthless cretins in waves at your enemies while you slip out through the secret escape tunnel.
 


Mesh Hong

First Post
I've been thinking of giving minions a saving throw on a hit:

20-19 : Heroic
20-16 : Paragon
20-13 : Epic

I think that might get a bit frustrating for your players. You might be better off just increasing the numbers of minions (based roughly on the probability of them making a save) without adding any more XP value (but then I would say that because it is my approach :)).

Really I think there are many different ways of handling minions, there have been so many different solutions posted that it is clear to me that different groups find different solutions. As long as your group knows what to expect from minions then what ever system you use is probably fine.
 

jstomel

First Post
For a while I considered giving minions hitpoints equal to their level (ie. a level 9 minion would have 9 hitpoints). This would mean that they generally would go down with a single good solid hit, but splash damage and overflow from cleave and whatnot would still stand a chance of not killing them outright. Then I came to my senses and realized that minions exist to die and simply lowered their xp to 1/8 normal rather than 1/4.
 

Kalthanis

First Post
I like to give my minions Damage Resistance equal to one-half their level. In this way, lower leveled minions go down fast to Cleave and Scorching Burst, but it doesn't take long to avoid the Warlock's Chosen Wave of Slaying. They stop dying to incidental damage and start soaking up actions and attacks as they were meant to.

Plus, it's fairly bookkeeping light. You don't have to make extra rolls, track hit points, or anything.
 

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