My PCs are walking into a problem!!

[Balrog]

I am suffering from a party of PCs that seems to know no restraint. They have recently encountered a well-fortified group of creatures guarding the Burial Halls of the Tomb of Abysthor (see NECROMANCER GAMES module).

The fortified group is purposely tough, but the PCs know of and have used a secret entrance already, so can avoid the tough group. And this is their second foray into the Halls, after several months of regrouping for the NPCS.

The problem: one player in particular seems to believe that any encounter can be bested if he puts his mind to it, and there is no unwinnable scenario.

So despite the rest of the party's wisdom (in which they have successfully used the secret entrance entrance to access the Burial Halls), they still seem to be on a trainwreck towards this encounter.

Here are the creatures in this force:

1 advanced Hezrou (18 HD)
1 14th level Cleric/Thrall Of Demogorgon
1 Ogre Mage
8 Ogre 2nd Lvl Ftrs
2 Half-Fiend Troll Fighter 4th Level
4 Troll Barbarians 2nd Level
8 normal Trolls
60 Gnolls including a 6th level Ftr, 10 4th lvl Ftrs, 12 2nd lvl Ftrs. 1 Shaman, and 36 1st lvl Ftrs

I dont want the campaign to end on a huge mistake. The PCs are rather tough, level 13th on average and we have been playing this campaign for at almost 2 years already. How do I avoid this disaster?

 

[Kalanyr]

At a glance I think they may make it, if they use some good tactics, the encounter doesn't seem like its a guaranteed TPK to me, but its gonna involve a big buncha hurting and some character deaths. Maybe have another group of adventures (that the party know are only slightly weaker than they are), recuperating somewhere or all dead near the entrance (with heads on spikes and stuff), to show them that this encounter really isn't supposed to be tackled head on.

 

[Ryltar]

This is something you will have to deal with OOC, because the only IG thing you could to that would *really* make a point is to let them die in this encounter. In my experience, it also doesn't pay off to count on the player's wisdom to "see when they're overmatched" - they tend to run only when one or two party members have died. If you consider this acceptable, then go ahead, but this problem is one most groups are facing at some point in their adventuring career: they get too cocky, and their attitide changes to something like "the DM wouldn't send me into an encounter I couldn't win".

You'll have to talk to this player, and make it clear, once and for all, that he shouldn't count on that fact, and that you will not take any responsibility for his character's eventual death. If he doesn't get the hint, then let them walk into the encounter and have the player roll up a new character afterwards .

Cheers,
Ryltar

 

[Liquidsabre]

Best thing to do is hints, hints, and more hints. Followed by a light sprinkling of foreshadowing. Give the PCs "bad-feelings" about this, along with an Int roll or two when battle erupts as they realize it's a trap! Inform the PCs solemnly that it appears they have fallen to a well orchestrated trap and that their characters suddenly realize with horror that their goals have shifted from "defeat the enemies" to "escaping with their lives"!

Hype the large big-baddie's actions, make them seem impressive and have him demonstrate a potent power/command of the other creatures. Allow identification of coming forces withh good rolls and that, there appears to be many, well beyond anything they have faced before! Accentuate the dire need to escape as things turn for the worse, describe the near-kill an opponent deals and the many slavoring creatures awaiting their PCs deaths. Just insert the desperateness of the encounter with flavor test that describes what their characters sense and feel from their environmental stimuli.

Just as an audience watches a movie and see/feel the coming dread from mood music, hints in the film from smoky weather, leering eyes in the darkness, and whatnot that create an atmosphere of dread/fear.

Remind the PCs that the creatures in this abode have likely had time to readjust their defenses, or perhasp worse... <insert evil grin>. If your PCs ignore multiple hints from atmosphere to reminders, then they'll do nothing but kick themselves in the rears later for not listening or enjoy the heck out of falling in a blaze of glory. Either way they shouldn't blame you in the slightest. If they do, it may be time to trade up to more grateful players, or perhaps given your reaction, they will realize that they should be more reasonable/grateful of your efforts themselves.

Either way as long as you build the atmosphere up to the encounter, making it a credible threat (i.e. a known threat, even if it's nature is obscure) you shouldn't have any problems at all. Best of luck!

 

[Squire James]

It is my belief that you should let the train wreck happen, or reduce the encounter until it is not unwinnable. Doing anything else pretty much requires some Really Bad DM-ing to salvage the campaign.

Some Really Good Stories comes out of supposedly unwinnable scenarios.

For instance, we once had a group of 10-12 1st level characters who encountered a group of 100 orcs out in the open. We got surprise, but there was nothing really keeping the orcs from swarming us. We killed 82 of them and routed the rest, almost without taking a scratch. Granted, this was 1st edition, when orcs weren't as bad as they are now (and low-level illusions still had a kick), but it's still an accomplishment. The DM told us he expected us to track the orcs back to their lair and handle them piecemeal.

 

[Wycen]

Kill the character who is stupid enough to attack all that. Capture the rest.

Sounds like they need to learn when to say no.

 

[Marimmar@Home]

IMO it depends a lot on the number of characters and party composition. They would need at least 6 characters to pull this off and they should all be able to carry their own weight in combat - meaning having a capable player with good rules and character ability knowledge. They could call some Astral Devas or Trumpet Archons to help them fight the Hezrou, the XP from winning such a tough fight would even out the few hundred XP spent to gain the aid of such powerful allies. As always with a opposing force in superior numbers, they would need to reduce the ability of the melee combatants to reach them. Being able to fly, casting blade barriers, walls of fire or spike stones can severely hamper the enemy grunts from closing in on the party.
The only really tough opponent would be the advanced Hezrou because of his blasphemy spell-like ability. If his caster-level has been advanced too, it would be a very mean ability, they would need to take him out of the fight as quick as possible.
Your own fighters and archers should benefit from align weapon spells to allow them to combat the hezrou.

If the party is too small, has inefficient players (those that dont know that their cleric PC can cast spells, players that have their PCs always run away from combat, players that cast magic missiles instead of a maximized fireball on a charging horde of enemies) but they still are intrigued to attack the force, just have the hezrou called away by his superior. It should be possible for a 4 player party to win again. Just make shure that you don't pull any punches and tell them beforehand so that there's no whining afterwards.

~Marimmar

 

[The Forsaken One]

They can win it easily with good use and decent spellcasters. If they have 2 wizards it's all over if you use Magic of Faerun.

If there are 2 wizards with the firebrand spell and there is some decent wall of force; wall of ice usage.......

Wall's and reverse gravity and the likes will make or break this kind of encounter imho.

 

[The_Gneech]

Are there any NPC's in the group? Have them balk and tell the offending player, "You're on your own; I'm not committing suicide for your crazy cause!"

-The Gneech

 

[Ogrork the Mighty]

Have an out for them to escape. Maybe a special magic item or a celestial creature that can rescue them.

It's fine to kick their arses, but make sure they escape to return another day. When they do, hopefully they can prevail.

Remember, the game is about having fun and making unwinable encounters isn't much fun for your players.