I'm going to be starting a 4e campaign later this summer. One of my players has historically always played wizards because he liked to be able to do things other than just do damage - enchantments, illusions, summoning. So, as you might imagine, he's a bit ticked that virtually all of those sorts of spells are now gone (even illusions do straight damage). Any advice on what I should say? What kind of character might I suggest now?
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My player wants an enchanter
- Thread starter BigCat
- Start date
The Little Raven
First Post
"Try something new."
I traditionally play wizards myself, but in my first 4e game, I picked up a paladin and found myself loving how different it felt. I'd suggest you push him to try a different class, since all the classes are equally viable and cool now.
I'd point him to either a cleric or a warlock. With some specialization, you can get some of the effects he wants.
Clerics get a handful of summons: Astral Defenders(9), Knights of Unyielding Valor(10), and Knight of Glory(19) all summon creatures to do your bidding, assuming your bidding is in the selection of things they know how to do.
Warlocks get a handful of spells that take over the target for a time or to a limited end: Curse of the Dark Delirium(29) is the strongest of these, but they start as early as level 1 with Curse of the Dark Doom.
The main approach is to look for appropriate powers, being aware that they might be in a strange place. Then be ready to round them out with multiclassing and rituals(like Animal Messenger for a summoner or Hallucinatory Item for an illusionist). He won't get exactly the thing he wants, but he can get some of the effects he's after.
Clerics get a handful of summons: Astral Defenders(9), Knights of Unyielding Valor(10), and Knight of Glory(19) all summon creatures to do your bidding, assuming your bidding is in the selection of things they know how to do.
Warlocks get a handful of spells that take over the target for a time or to a limited end: Curse of the Dark Delirium(29) is the strongest of these, but they start as early as level 1 with Curse of the Dark Doom.
The main approach is to look for appropriate powers, being aware that they might be in a strange place. Then be ready to round them out with multiclassing and rituals(like Animal Messenger for a summoner or Hallucinatory Item for an illusionist). He won't get exactly the thing he wants, but he can get some of the effects he's after.
StreamOfTheSky
Adventurer
Stick with 3E.
What? We're allowed to give the obvious reply.
Also, either ENWorld uses different smiley codes than I'm used to, or they just aren't working right now...
LostSoul
Adventurer
Use the stunt mechanics (found on page 42) to great effect.
First, ask the player what his intent is - what does he want to have happen? Then make him use an action (standard, move, minor) and a skill check or an attack to have it happen. The key is to make the Wizard use up his actions - these are his most valuable resources.
Some guidelines:
Any time that he wants to do something that "defeats" a creature - making it surrender, run away, or fall under his control - he deals damage. Dealing damage is always a standard action, and that's all he can do with the check (Arcana, using the table of DCs + 5, or Int if it's directly opposed by a creature, like an attack).
If he wants to "defeat" a creature who is bloodied, he can do it at your discretion, but use the Intimidate guidelines - +5 or +10 to the DC, and only 1/encounter.
If he wants to impose some kind of effect, make it 1/encounter. He does not deal damage with this, and it takes a standard action.
If he wants to control other creatures on his side in combat, make him use his own actions to do so. A summoned creature might start off right next to him, and then it needs to use the Wizard's move actions to move, the Wizard's standard actions to attack (resolved using the Wizard's Int vs. AC), etc.
I'm not sure how many hp a summoned creature should have, if any. I think that you could say that any attack hits the summoned creature automatically and kills it - or, and I think I like this better, use the Wizard's defenses for the summoned creature, and if it takes damage, the Wizard takes the same amount. The Wizard determines if the summoned creature dies after it takes damage.
Illusions that make a target think something - something that does not "defeat" the creature (like, "Oh my god we must run!") - you should be able to use the above guidelines for most things. Stuff that doesn't fit - like making an illusory wall - I think you'd have to handle on a case-by-case basis.
Make an illusory wall - intent being that the NPCs can't cross the wall: Roll Arcana vs. DC + 5 (easy, hard, or moderate depends on if the wall appears in their faces or if you create it in an area they haven't been yet, and if it makes sense for a wall to be there). Failure means they see it for what it is, and can cross through the wall. Success means they can't move through the wall. 1/encounter. Standard action to do it, sustain minor.
Make it sound like reinforcements are coming - intent being to make the NPCs run: Roll Int vs. Will, 1 target, 1/encounter vs that target, and deal damage to him. Maybe a feat could increase the effect to a burst 1 or something.
Charm a creature so it attacks an nearby ally: standard action, make Int vs. AC against the creature you want him to attack, deal low damage to it if you hit.
Just some thoughts.
First, ask the player what his intent is - what does he want to have happen? Then make him use an action (standard, move, minor) and a skill check or an attack to have it happen. The key is to make the Wizard use up his actions - these are his most valuable resources.
Some guidelines:
Any time that he wants to do something that "defeats" a creature - making it surrender, run away, or fall under his control - he deals damage. Dealing damage is always a standard action, and that's all he can do with the check (Arcana, using the table of DCs + 5, or Int if it's directly opposed by a creature, like an attack).
If he wants to "defeat" a creature who is bloodied, he can do it at your discretion, but use the Intimidate guidelines - +5 or +10 to the DC, and only 1/encounter.
If he wants to impose some kind of effect, make it 1/encounter. He does not deal damage with this, and it takes a standard action.
If he wants to control other creatures on his side in combat, make him use his own actions to do so. A summoned creature might start off right next to him, and then it needs to use the Wizard's move actions to move, the Wizard's standard actions to attack (resolved using the Wizard's Int vs. AC), etc.
I'm not sure how many hp a summoned creature should have, if any. I think that you could say that any attack hits the summoned creature automatically and kills it - or, and I think I like this better, use the Wizard's defenses for the summoned creature, and if it takes damage, the Wizard takes the same amount. The Wizard determines if the summoned creature dies after it takes damage.
Illusions that make a target think something - something that does not "defeat" the creature (like, "Oh my god we must run!") - you should be able to use the above guidelines for most things. Stuff that doesn't fit - like making an illusory wall - I think you'd have to handle on a case-by-case basis.
Make an illusory wall - intent being that the NPCs can't cross the wall: Roll Arcana vs. DC + 5 (easy, hard, or moderate depends on if the wall appears in their faces or if you create it in an area they haven't been yet, and if it makes sense for a wall to be there). Failure means they see it for what it is, and can cross through the wall. Success means they can't move through the wall. 1/encounter. Standard action to do it, sustain minor.
Make it sound like reinforcements are coming - intent being to make the NPCs run: Roll Int vs. Will, 1 target, 1/encounter vs that target, and deal damage to him. Maybe a feat could increase the effect to a burst 1 or something.
Charm a creature so it attacks an nearby ally: standard action, make Int vs. AC against the creature you want him to attack, deal low damage to it if you hit.
Just some thoughts.
ExploderWizard
Hero
Assuming you want to run 4E, the question becomes how much work do you want to do to accomodate this player. You can create rituals for illusions and enchantments but its a lot of work. On one hand they might be useful to other players and NPC's but if not then its probably too much effort just to appease one player. If he wants these effects to have any combat applications at all then he is probably screwed.
roguerouge
First Post
You could make the player design something and then edit it to taste.... After all, they know what they want to do.
Corey_Austin
First Post
Agreeing with roguerogue. Between forum creations and player imagination, there should be no difficulties in finding something to suit the player's interests, and I'm of the opinion that the DM shouldn't restrict any character choice that isn't directly abusive.
If all else fails however, have him look at the warlock, and just let him go with a wizardly theme of playing it.
If all else fails however, have him look at the warlock, and just let him go with a wizardly theme of playing it.
Master of Puppets or Starlock
If he wants an enchanter-type theme, check out Squirreloid's Master of Puppets build (don't have the link handy) or try a star pact warlock. Either of these provides some focus on psychic and fear effects. They also eventually provide more of the "take control of the monster" type effects.
-Chmiwasm
If he wants an enchanter-type theme, check out Squirreloid's Master of Puppets build (don't have the link handy) or try a star pact warlock. Either of these provides some focus on psychic and fear effects. They also eventually provide more of the "take control of the monster" type effects.
-Chmiwasm
