Pathfinder 1E Mythic Adventures. Huh?

[Kinak]

Could a few Pathfinder players and DMs please share their thoughts on Mythic Adventures?

Sure! It's pretty cool and several of my players are really excited by it. We're considering using it for Shattered Star when we run it, actually.

It's certainly another system to keep track of, but they do a good job of folding that complexity into things that already exist. So many of the feats and abilities modify existing complex elements making them simpler (in the best cases), but generally not much more complex. A Mythic character could be built without adding much complexity, but you would have to build with that in mind.

It certainly isn't for every game, but I think it's a good fit for, well, mythical (small-m) campaigns. I'd also like to try running M6 or M8 (E6/8 using Mythic rules) at some point. I think it's actually a pretty slick fit for Greek legends.

Is it a good thing? A bad thing?

I obviously like the product, but more importantly, I think it marks a good change in direction for the rulebook line.

Together with Ultimate Campaign, the last two books we've gotten in that line aren't just sitting there bloating the game. If I'm not running a Mythic game, Mythic Adventures can stay on the shelf without adding a whit of complexity or look-up time to the game. Similarly, if I don't need any rules from Ultimate Campaign, it's not bogging things down.

I'd much rather have another book to hold back for the right campaign than another one that my players have to pick through for spells and feats.

Does Paizo publishing Mythic Adventure Paths lessen their usefulness to you if you're not using the Mythic rules system?

I haven't gotten the Mythic part of their Wrath of the Righteous path in the mail, but it would require conversion to use without Mythic rules.

The "on-level" CR for characters is increased by roughly half their mythic tier. That means the first and second adventures wouldn't require much conversion, but the last adventure is something like +5 CR from where you'd need it.

I don't have the book, but I'm curious. Could someone explain how it works? So it's not epic level rules, it's something else? Do you go from 1-20 as normal, but as a more powerful hero type?

@Wicht basically has this right.

You have a separate Mythic advancement track (called Tiers, because there are enough levels in the world) that runs alongside the normal level system, but basically under GM control. So you could go up to 20, then start getting Mythic Tiers, treating it like Epic Levels. Or you could spread them out through those 20 levels. Or, if you're sparing with them, some combination of the two (giving out three during the normal levels and holding the rest in reserve).

The main difference between it and epic is that tiers aren't levels. You gain a few numeric benefits, like HP, but in general math doesn't continue to advance as it did under epic rules. That's the main reason we didn't get an epic rulebook from Paizo, because the math doesn't work if you continue to treat levels consistently.

I'm at a point where I begin to think that PF really does not need any more stuff like this. It's not too bad as such, it is even interesting, yet there are too many rules and add ons already to confuse new and old players. I wish they'd stop just churning out add ons for a while.

It's funny. I'd so much rather have a bunch of books like this than more books like Ultimate Magic and Ultimate Combat that add to the core.

I don't have a problem outlawing options I don't like, but it's nice when things come in discrete optional packages. I don't have to pick through it and see if there's anything useful or broken, just flip the Mythic switch to on or off.

Cheers!
Kinak

 

[Scrivener of Doom]

I'm at a point where I begin to think that PF really does not need any more stuff like this. It's not too bad as such, it is even interesting, yet there are too many rules and add ons already to confuse new and old players. I wish they'd stop just churning out add ons for a while.

I was going to reply directly and then saw what Kinak wrote in reply:

(snip) It's funny. I'd so much rather have a bunch of books like this than more books like Ultimate Magic and Ultimate Combat that add to the core.

I don't have a problem outlawing options I don't like, but it's nice when things come in discrete optional packages. I don't have to pick through it and see if there's anything useful or broken, just flip the Mythic switch to on or off. (snip)

I must admit, as happy as I am with 4E (and I also look lovingly at 13th Age with a fair degree of regularity), Mythic Adventures is something that made me think about Pathfinder again. I think it's a really imaginative and innovative set of rules although my lack of current familiarity with running 3.xE/Pathfinder games means I'm not in the best position to judge how sound it is mechanically.

But I love the options it provides and that it goes beyond yet another new feat or yet another new spell.

That said, I do understand where Lwaxy is coming from as well - there is just so much stuff! - and it is yet another set of things to keep track of. I wonder if HeroLab will ever offer Mythic support?

 

[Lwaxy]

I could have done without the ultimate books, too, but it is less about me. The long time players will probably make use of all of the books, or most of it, sooner or later. What was nice with PF was the relatively low set of rules books and the amount of fluff you got for the world, or world building, as such.

Now it is more and more rules, and changing the APs to mythic is kind of annoying to me as I often play those with new or less experience players. To have yet another set of rules that I need to explain (and first buy) is a big issue. While I get the APs used, this is not the case for the non-adventure stuff, and a lot of people want simple, which is why they didn't do D&D to begin with. I can play regular APs with non-PF/D&D rules easily, going to be more difficult now I think.

Well, Spiel2013 is around the corner, maybe I get good prices there for all the books I am still missing but I am really at my limit in regards to how many more stuff I wanna buy just to keep playing with the rich kids.

 

[Wicht]

Now it is more and more rules, and changing the APs to mythic is kind of annoying to me as I often play those with new or less experience players.

I seem to recall them saying this AP was not indicative of all future APs being mythic. I actually like that each AP tries to capture something new, or cover new ground in some way. Variety is the spice of gaming.

 

[Crispy Critter]

Not all the APs are now going to be Mythic. Paizo wanted to do an AP regarding The Worldwound but they felt to do it right the adversaries placed in the PCs way would be impossible to defeat using the standard 15th to 18th level campaign most APs end at. At the same time they weren't looking to tack an Epic Level rules for characters making it past 20th level and from a practical stand-point it's pretty much impossible from a page-count perspective to get PCs past 20th level in a standard six AP format. Thus, they came up with the Mythic Rules allowing characters gain power more quickly. The conceit is that these characters are essentially chosen by the Gods to be no mere mortal heroes but something far greater in order to beat back the demonic forces infecting Golarian through The Worldwound.

While I haven't played with the Mythic rules yet, I've found them to be more elegant than I expected (at least readign the rules, how they are in practice will be another matter). In the end, the Mythic rules are optional and the next two APs after Wrath of the Righeous will not be including Mythic rules.

 

[Kinak]

That said, I do understand where Lwaxy is coming from as well - there is just so much stuff! - and it is yet another set of things to keep track of. I wonder if HeroLab will ever offer Mythic support?

I think it's safe to say yes

In the end, the Mythic rules are optional and the next two APs after Wrath of the Righeous will not be including Mythic rules.

Yup. Iron Gods and Mummy's Mask are already in development and neither is Mythic.

At GenCon, they said that they're waiting to see how people like Wrath of the Righteous. If people love it, they'll probably do another Mythic AP at some point. If not, it'll probably be a long while before they try it again.

The only thing I'd expect to see is more Mythic "continuing the campaign" sections, like the one at the end of Reign of Winter, where appropriate.

Cheers!
Kinak

 

[Crothian]

I think I would rather make a non mythic AP Mythic. None of the APs have been really good as is so since I'm going to be making changes anyway might as well as make it Mythic.

 

[Wycen]

We have now played 1 and a half sessions with the mythic rules. We started normal, completed our first trial to ascend to mythic power, and did some more exploration afterwords. Then the next session we really put our new found power to use in combat.

The trials are where mythic rules might appeal to role players from other games. You could say they are like skill challenges, but are more complex or open to interpretation by the DM. Maybe you need to defeat a mythic foe, or talk to a god, or find an artifact or pull off some crazy lucky dice rolls (like jumping from a cliff onto the back of a griffon or something).

The system bolts on to the existing rules.

Each character chooses a mythic "path" that reflects their abilities and is something of a meta-descriptor. So a rogue who wants to do incredible sneaky things might take the "Trickster" path. A druid might want to take the "Hierophant" class to improve your spell casting abilities. Or, that same druid might better be a "Guardian" who protects the land and his adventuring party, (and self) with amazing abilities. There are 6 paths, archmage, champion, guardian, hierophant, marshal, and trickster.

Achieving each tier (10 total possible, but like any regular game, only your DM knows how many you might achieve), may provide bonus hit points, a bonus mythic feat, a mythic path ability, and a mythic power appropriate to your path. On even level tiers you gain certain bonuses and on odd level tiers you gain other stuff like mythic feats.

Now, all powers are not created equal, that is true. One power may be clearly superior, but you may find players taking the weird non-obvious powers for story telling or because their character can use it more effectively than others.

Ex. One mythic power for the archmage gives you ALL magic item creation feats. Yeah, take this power and you never have to choose between craft wand and brew potion or whatever.

Then you have another power that lets you use the Commune spell once per day, with your tier as your caster level.

Clearly, I'd choose the first ability pretty much every time over the second, but you have to on the archmage mythic path.

They also include rules on mythic spells and magic items. They are the same as the normal game, but mythic magic items require a mythic feat to create and mythic spells use your mythic power points to boost and require a feat to select. You only know a number of mythic spell versions according to your tier. At tier 1, you have to choose which 1 of your spells is also going to be mythic.

Ex. If you know Barkskin, and you are mythic, you can cast the mythic version by spending a power point. The mythic version not only gives you a natural armor bonus, it gives you damage reduction.

If you've ever wanted to make your character/players feel like they have something "unique" these powers are a good way to emulate that (if you don't have ideas yourself).

I think we'll probably need to reread some rules, because one of the basic abilities I didn't mention, called a surge, lets you roll a d6 (or higher later) and add that result to a check you already rolled. I'm not sure if you can add it to any d20 roll or just certain rolls. Or maybe you can even add it to damage rolls.

 

[Wicht]

I think I would rather make a non mythic AP Mythic. None of the APs have been really good as is so since I'm going to be making changes anyway might as well as make it Mythic.

YMMV

 

[Crothian]

YMMV

Goes without saying. It's not like we've played all of them or even half.