"Narrative Options" mechanical?

[Balesir]

You as a player don't cast spells or use weaponry but the character you are playing the role of probably will. You ARE your character as far as the game world is concerned.

But the character does not exist. They are imagined by all the players as being in a specific setting and doing specific things only because they are narrated to be doing so (and the clue there is in the word we use).

It's true that it is possible to imagine a character doing stuff in an alien world without narrating it, but it is not possible for the fiction thus imagined to be shared without that narration. And building a shared fiction over which all players have some degree of authorial control (even if it is very strictly limited to "their" character's actions) is as close to a definition of roleplaying as I have come accross.

 

[ExploderWizard]

I don't see the difference between "narrating the setting" by saying things like "The room is very dark" and "narrating the setting inhabitants" by saying things like "The orcs greet you with the words "Please give us some pie." They look like hungry orcs." Some players also describe their PCs' actions in this sort of 3rd person way.

The difference is simple. While narrating the setting inhabitants, the DM isn't roleplaying them. It is quite possible to run an entire session without any actual roleplaying.

 

[Mike Eagling]

The act of playing an rpg being the process of creating a narrative is itself debatable.

I don't agree. Narrative can be defined as "a representation of a particular situation or process in such a way as to reflect or conform to an overarching set of aims or values", which is a pretty accurate description of what a role-playing game is.

How interested the players are in that narrative is very much up for debate, depending upon the play stances of those players, but that does not mean the narrative ceases to exist simply because said players disregard it.

Whatever exactly they're doing, it doesn't inovlve casting spells or using weaponry (as you note) but it does involve making assertions about, including intersubjectively reasoned and justified assertions about, a series of fictional events. One reasonably standard way of describing such activity in English is as the construction of a narrative.

Exactly.

Even if a player or GM moves into 1st person dialogue, that is still the production of a shared fiction (and hence, in some tenable sense of the word, of a narrative). Many novels, for instance, contain direct speech as well as indirect speech. They are still narratives. The move from 3rd to 1st person has aesthetic significance in some (maybe many) contexts, but doesn't change the fundamental nature of the activity.

True. I'd go even further and state that even if a solo player were to randomly generate encounters and resolve them in a purely mechanistic fashion as combats or skill rolls in pawn stance, he or she would still be constructing a narrative--a representation of a particular situation or processes--even though that narrative exists nowhere but within the consciousness of the lone player and is immediately disregarded.

The difference is simple. While narrating the setting inhabitants, the DM isn't roleplaying them. It is quite possible to run an entire session without any actual roleplaying.

Again, there is a difference between narrative and narration. There is also a difference between role-playing in the sense of assuming a character in the form of improvisational acting and role-playing in the sense of partaking in a game such as D&D, etc.; the former is certainly part of the latter (in this context) but not the entirety.

 

[ExploderWizard]

Again, there is a difference between narrative and narration. There is also a difference between role-playing in the sense of assuming a character in the form of improvisational acting and role-playing in the sense of partaking in a game such as D&D, etc.; the former is certainly part of the latter (in this context) but not the entirety.

In a roleplaying game such as D&D, the player assumes the role of an adventurer. Attempting to be a method actor/use an in-character voice, and such are purely optional and not required to roleplay. All that is needed to roleplay is approaching the scenario from within the assumed role. There is a great deal of OOC interaction between player and DM since the DM functions as sensory input for the character.

The narrative is created after the events (actual play) that inspired it.

 

[Mike Eagling]

The narrative is created after the events (actual play) that inspired it.

No. The narrative is created by the events (actual play).

I suspect we'll have to agree to disagree

 

[Ahnehnois]

A narrative (or story) is any account of connected events, presented to a reader or listener in a sequence of written or spoken words, or in a sequence of (moving) pictures.

I am not aware of any way of playing D&D that does not involve people verbalizing an account of connected events. You tell the DM what your character is doing or trying to do. Your DM tells you what happens. There are other metagame considerations that are often being discussed, but there is always a running narrative.

 

[JamesonCourage]

I am not aware of any way of playing D&D that does not involve people verbalizing an account of connected events. You tell the DM what your character is doing or trying to do. Your DM tells you what happens. There are other metagame considerations that are often being discussed, but there is always a running narrative.

I don't think I'd consider that "an account", but we're getting into admittedly hazy territory. Personally, I think this bit of the discussion won't go anywhere productive regardless, but who knows. As always, play what you like

 

[pemerton]

In a roleplaying game such as D&D, the player assumes the role of an adventurer. Attempting to be a method actor/use an in-character voice, and such are purely optional and not required to roleplay. All that is needed to roleplay is approaching the scenario from within the assumed role.

While narrating the setting inhabitants, the DM isn't roleplaying them. It is quite possible to run an entire session without any actual roleplaying.

These two passages seem to be in contradiction.

The player or GM "assumes the role" of a character - that is, tells other participants at the table what that character is doing, in the fiction, on the basis of extrapolation from already-established elements of the fiction (like character personality).

How is that anything but narrating further fictional content?

 

[ExploderWizard]

These two passages seem to be in contradiction.

The player or GM "assumes the role" of a character - that is, tells other participants at the table what that character is doing, in the fiction, on the basis of extrapolation from already-established elements of the fiction (like character personality).

How is that anything but narrating further fictional content?

There isn't a contradiction. The key is in approaching the scenario from within the assumed role or not. If the DM says " the orc leader Grok demands tribute of 100 gold" then there is a narration going on. If the DM says (as Grok) "give us 100 gold and we might let you puny humans live" there is roleplaying happening. Of course, if Grok,being a rather dull orc, referred to himself in the third person it might not be considered out of character. The DM doing the same (as him/her self) would be narrating.

Likewise when a player says " Black Dougal tells everyone that he is scouting for traps and moves on ahead" there is a narration of action. If the player says " Think I'm going to scout ahead for traps" he is doing so from the assumed role of Black Dougal, thus roleplaying.

Thus its easy to see how entire sessions can be played without any roleplaying happening.

 

[Majoru Oakheart]

Thus its easy to see how entire sessions can be played without any roleplaying happening.

I'm not entirely sure this line is so cut and dry. Narration can say what a character says verbatim. There are often entire paragraphs in book, for instance where the words "The Orc said" maybe only appear once or not at all, with just the implication that the sentence is dialog coming from the Orc.

Meanwhile, the idea of roleplaying is to play the role of a character. Nothing about roleplaying requires that you take on that role from "inside" the character. You simply take on his/her/its role. Which means you make decisions for your character. Preferably while taking into account your character's personality before deciding...but there is definitely a grey area where you are supposed to take on the role of that character but not necessarily BECOME that character.

It's similar to 2 actors playing the same character. The character is going to stay mostly the same if they do their job as actors, but each one will likely play it slightly different as they put their own unique take on the character. They are both "roleplaying" as that character.

I don't think whether you are using the first person narrative or 3rd person narrative matters for purposes of the narrative being created. Heck, there is an entire wikipedia page about first-person narrative: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-person_narrative