natural armor bonus

[ChefOrc]

I am confused about the terminology pertaining to natural armor bonuses.

Some spells, such as barkskin, provide an enhancement bonus to natural armor. The type of this bonus is "enhancement".

Other spells, such as tree shape, provide a "natural armor bonus to AC". Is this an "unnamed" bonus to natural armor or a bonus of the type "natural armor"? Does it stack with the above-mentionned enhancement bonus?

 

[tomBitonti]

Stacking Cases

You'll have to examine the wording of each effect carefully. As usual for named bonuses,
two different natural armor bonuses do not stack with each other. Two different
enhancement bonuses to natural armor do not stack with each (although the best stacks
with the natural armor bonus).

An aside ... what happens when a creature that already has a high natural armor bonus (for example, a dragon), casts tree shape? By the wording of Tree Shape, they keep the better of the two bonuses, although, that sits funny with me.

From www.d20srd.org:

Natural Armor Bonus

A natural armor bonus improves Armor Class resulting from a creature's naturally tough hide. Natural armor bonuses stack with all other bonuses to Armor Class (even with armor bonuses) except other natural armor bonuses. Some magical effects (such as the barkskin spell) grant an enhancement bonus to the creature's existing natural armor bonus, which has the effect of increasing the natural armor's overall bonus to Armor Class. A natural armor bonus doesn't apply against touch attacks.

Tree Shape

By means of this spell, you are able to assume the form of a Large living tree or shrub or a Large dead tree trunk with a small number of limbs. The closest inspection cannot reveal that the tree in question is actually a magically concealed creature. To all normal tests you are, in fact, a tree or shrub, although a detect magic spell reveals a faint transmutation on the tree. While in tree form, you can observe all that transpires around you just as if you were in your normal form, and your hit points and save bonuses remain unaffected. You gain a +10 natural armor bonus to AC but have an effective Dexterity score of 0 and a speed of 0 feet. You are immune to critical hits while in tree form. All clothing and gear carried or worn changes with you.

Amulet of Natural Armor

This amulet, usually crafted from bone or beast scales, toughens the wearer’s body and flesh, giving him an enhancement bonus to his natural armor bonus of from +1 to +5, depending on the kind of amulet.

Barkskin

Barkskin toughens a creature’s skin. The effect grants a +2 enhancement bonus to the creature’s existing natural armor bonus. This enhancement bonus increases by 1 for every three caster levels above 3rd, to a maximum of +5 at caster level 12th.

The enhancement bonus provided by barkskin stacks with the target’s natural armor bonus, but not with other enhancement bonuses to natural armor. A creature without natural armor has an effective natural armor bonus of +0.

Thx!

Tom Bitonti

 

[Infiniti2000]

Some spells, such as barkskin, provide an enhancement bonus to natural armor. The type of this bonus is "enhancement".

This essentially makes it a bonus to a bonus to AC.

Other spells, such as tree shape, provide a "natural armor bonus to AC". Is this an "unnamed" bonus to natural armor or a bonus of the type "natural armor"? Does it stack with the above-mentionned enhancement bonus?

This makes it a bonus to AC, thus it is not even in the same category of checking to see whether it stacks. As long as you cast tree shape first, then the barkskin will improve it (note the key word 'existing').

An aside ... what happens when a creature that already has a high natural armor bonus (for example, a dragon), casts tree shape? By the wording of Tree Shape, they keep the better of the two bonuses, although, that sits funny with me.

A high bonus or not, the spell does not specify what happens to your natural armor while in tree shape. In fact, I think the wording is unclear about what happens to equipment: "All clothing and gear carried or worn changes with you." 'Changes with you' is too vague--does it mean nonfunctional?

 

[Krafen]

Bonuses to AC can be confusing. Essentially, there are two different levels of bonuses.

The first level affects AC directly:

armor bonus to AC
shield bonus to AC
natural armor bonus to AC
dodge bonus to AC
insight bonus to AC
etc.

The second level affects some of the above bonuses:

enhancement bonus to armor bonus to AC
enhancement bonus to shield bonus to AC
enhancement bonus to natural armor bonus to AC

The second level is generally just enhancement, but there may be some exceptions out there.

There is no such thing as "an enhancement bonus to AC." It is always an enhancement bonus to some bonus to AC.

 

[Space Coyote]

The Tree Shape is giving you a natural armor bonus of +10. So that the wording is not confusing you, leave out the word "bonus". Tree Shape gives you a natural armor of +10. So, with no other modifiers or bonuses, your AC would be 20 (base 10 +10 for natural armor).

Then, Barkskin gives an enhancement bonus TO natural armor (i.e. it increases natural armor). Therefore if you had Barkskin at minimum level and Tree Shape, your natural armor total would be +12 (+10 for Tree Shape +2 for Barkskin) for a total AC of 22.

 

[Artoomis]

Generally speaking, you'll find three natural armor adjustments:

1. A Natural Armor bonus - this is simply the base value of the Natural Armor for that character. For multiple bonuses, the highest is what counts - no stacking.

2. Enhancement bonuses. Again, no stacking and only the highest enhancement bonus counts and it adds to the above Natural Armor bonus.

3. An unnamed bonus, as in "this item improves the bearer's Natural Armor by +3." These are very valuable, as they both add to (1) and (2) above and ALSO stack with each other, so two such bonuses = +6, for example, provided they come from different sources.

 

[Hypersmurf]

There is no such thing as "an enhancement bonus to AC." It is always an enhancement bonus to some bonus to AC.

Always?



-Hyp.

 

[javcs]

Named bonuses of the same type don't stack, only the highest one gets added, the exception being dodge bonuses and those others that specifically state that they stack (can't think of any other than dodge, though).
Named bonuses of different types stack (amusingly included sacred and profane ), but many times enhancement bonuses only improve what was already there.

As [almost] always , Hyp, you manage to find something to contradict such sweeping generalizations. Though, on the one hand I hope that was a typo, on the other, I hope it isn't.

 

[notjer]

The Tree Shape is giving you a natural armor bonus of +10. So that the wording is not confusing you, leave out the word "bonus". Tree Shape gives you a natural armor of +10. So, with no other modifiers or bonuses, your AC would be 20 (base 10 +10 for natural armor).QUOTE]

I want to see a tree with dragonscale.

 

[saucercrab]

Always?



-Hyp.

Well, it looks to be a typo (& would make sense if it is), as the the text mentions a thickening of natural armor.

Otherwise, I'd have to start agreeing with those that say psionics are overpowered.