Natural attacks and Class attacks confusion

[atomn]

Hi,
I'm confused on how newly obtained natural attacks mix with regular attacks (if at all) and I can't find anything about it in the PHB. In Tome of Magic one of the vestiges gives you ram horns which gives you a natural attack. Do you then have to choose between either the horn attack or your regular weapon attack or can you use both as a full attack? If you can use them both as a full attack, what penalties apply? Thanks!

 

[Cameron]

Hi,
I'm confused on how newly obtained natural attacks mix with regular attacks (if at all) and I can't find anything about it in the PHB. In Tome of Magic one of the vestiges gives you ram horns which gives you a natural attack. Do you then have to choose between either the horn attack or your regular weapon attack or can you use both as a full attack? If you can use them both as a full attack, what penalties apply? Thanks!

Both. You can use your natural attack as a secondary natural attack. For example:

You have a weapon attack of +15/10/5, and have a natural attack. If you wish to use the natural attack as well, it will be at +10 (5 less than your best attack), and so you get 4 attacks total. Multi-attack and Improved multi-attack will decrease that penalty.

 

[SadisticFishing]

But you can't use claw attacks if you're holding weapons, or slam attacks with your arms.. Right?

 

[Cameron]

He was talking about a gore attack, but yes, if you are holding a weapon, you generally can't use that arm to attack.

However, note that Monks do not have this restriction with their unarmed strikes. Big Dragons with Monk levels can really mess someone up in melee...

 

[Hypersmurf]

However, note that Monks do not have this restriction with their unarmed strikes.

Neither does anyone else, really - the description of Strike, Unarmed in the equipment section refers to kicks, punches, and headbutts. Even a Commoner-1 isn't required to punch someone with their fist.

-Hyp.

 

[Cameron]

Neither does anyone else, really - the description of Strike, Unarmed in the equipment section refers to kicks, punches, and headbutts. Even a Commoner-1 isn't required to punch someone with their fist.

-Hyp.

Class attacks...

 

[Hypersmurf]

Class attacks...

Race defends!

-Hyp.

 

[Cameron]

Rocks win!

 

[Hypersmurf]

Rocks suck! Paper rules!

Now that we've got that out of the way, what were you trying to say with "Class attacks"?

-Hyp.

 

[Cameron]

Rocks suck! Paper rules!

Now that we've got that out of the way, what were you trying to say with "Class attacks"?

-Hyp.

As in not normal Unarmed Strikes. Iterative attacks (with weapons, etc.). I am merely pointing out the the Monk's Unarmed Strikes are considered weapon strikes but you don't need a specific limb for it, so you can use all your natural attacks in conjunction with a full Monk Unarmed Strike attack.

I suppose a Kraken with Rapid Strike, Improved Rapid Strike, TwF, ITWF and GTWF and Monk levels could be even more dangerous than a big dragon, but I think a Colossal Gold wins hands down...