Natural Bond question

[Nezkrul]

Druid 5 / Vermin Keeper 10; I take Natural Bond feat at 15th level for my Vermin Companion (which works in all ways as an Animal Companion, as per the class feature's rules).

My question is since the table maxes out the vermin companion's bonuses at 10th level, but animal companions max out at 20th, my actual druid level for the vermin companion becomes 13, which is 3 higher than the max on the vermin companion table. Do I look at the epic animal companion chart to find it's new bonus, treating the level of the vermin companion as effectively 23 for the chart (or 26 since its like halved)?

 

[James the Newbie]

Before epic level I'd probably leave the companion maxed out at 20, then once you reach epic, advance the companion to level X accordingly, having an epic companion or access to epic rules before 21st level seems kind of out of place, also your party or DM may feel a little stiffed? But I don't know how your group reacts to these things.

 

[Empirate]

Actually, I'd never allow any class feature to be progressed beyond the table that was printed specifically for it...

 

[Nezkrul]

Animal Companion

The epic druid’s animal companion continues to increase in power. At every three levels higher than 18th (21st, 24th, 27th, and so on), the companion gains +2 bonus Hit Dice, its natural armor increases by 2, its Strength and Dexterity modifiers increase by 1, and it learns one additional bonus trick.

So level 23 wouldn't be broken, considering I couldn't raise it again for 6 class levels (vermin keeper doesn't stack with druid) since Natural Bond can only be taken once. The bonuses gained by the companion aren't game altering or unfair at all.

 

[James the Newbie]

So level 23 wouldn't be broken, considering I couldn't raise it again for 6 class levels (vermin keeper doesn't stack with druid) since Natural Bond can only be taken once. The bonuses gained by the companion aren't game altering or unfair at all.

Not broken or game altering, I can think of dozens of worse things a level 5 could do XD That said, its still epic, and giving non epic characters epic level abilities, would still seem out of place to me; just my two cent though.

 

[ImperatorK]

Not broken or game altering, I can think of dozens of worse things a level 5 could do XD That said, its still epic, and giving non epic characters epic level abilities, would still seem out of place to me; just my two cent though.

Depends. In my games I allow taking epic feats pre-epic (of course the better feats are houseruled to have requirements that make them unavailable before higher levels and some of them are simply banned) and nothing bad happened yet. If your game is low-op then epic feats might be too much, but OTOH you wouldn't then play on high or epic levels, now would you.
Epic feats aren't really that powerful. Some of them are game breaking (Epic Spellcasting), but other than that they're just good. There are non-epic feats that are better than epic and there are feats in various supplements that are epic feats, but reprinted as non-epic.

 

[Jackinthegreen]

Because the vermin companion has its own progression it looks like you'd have to house rule it yourself. Since it's loosely based on the druid's AC though, here's my recommendation.

The vermin keeper's effective druid level for the VC can be roughly equated to a druid. The first rank is levels 3-4, second is 5-6, then 7-8, and 9-10. The bonuses for the companion roughly line up with a druid's 3-5, 6-8, 9-11, and 12-14. With natural bond, the VK's "11-12" bracket would be equal to a druid's 15-17, thus it would be at +10 HD, +10 Natural Armor, +5 Str/Dex, and 6 bonus tricks.

The special abilities list, however, are one step behind a druid's, thus it feels appropriate that the VC doesn't get Improved Evasion because the druid level equivalent would be 18-20, while your companion is equivalent to the 15-17 category. Granting IE wouldn't usually be a huge deal because reflex saves are typically the weakest of all saves since it;s usually only damage.

Does that make sense for you?