D&D 5E Natural Weapons, How Much Value Is There To Actually Having Them?

[Crimson Longinus]

For the reasons @James Gasik mentioned, and so it doesn’t stereotype an entire sapient species as unfeeling monsters more ready to pounce on their ally’s corpse and prepare to eat it the moment battle is finished rather than try a revivify spell

Is this really so different from defining all orcs as ‘violent strength obsessed savages’ yet people have taken great issues with that description

Whether one finds this description of lizardfolk interesting is a matter of taste, but it doesn’t seem overtly negative to me, just somewhat alien, which I personally prefer to everyone being mentally exactly just like humans.

 

[fluffybunbunkittens]

Easy enough to give them all a 1/Rest free attack with them if they meet appropriate conditions.

Yes, but we can only give races spells from the regular spell lists. We can't have crazy 'you claw them so they start bleeding' maneuvers in here!

 

[Crimson Longinus]

Yes, but we can only give races spells from the regular spell lists. We can't have crazy 'you claw them so they start bleeding' maneuvers in here!

I mean it would be super weird if some tiny claws would cause so severe bleeding that we need to represent it mechanically if being hit with a battle axe doesn’t.

 

[fluffybunbunkittens]

Instead we get things like the Volo's Lizardfolk's Hungry Jaws, usable 1/Long Rest!

As much as I rag on Lizardfolk design, this was improved in MMM to something that almost saves the race from the scrappy pile with PB bonus uses per Long Rest...

The old 1/long rest Jaws only got spent on a HIT, which could be a fun vibe because no matter the stats on the Lizardfolk, they could keep spending their bonus action on biting until it works. The new jaws gets spent on every attempt, so a low-Str Lizardfolk now likely doesn't get anything from it.

Lizardfolk are such an ecclectic mix of features that I kind of love them.

• natural armor is good for a Rogue, being like a +1 studded leather (until you actually find one, then you just feel bad, unless you're actually a Sorcerer who could not use it anyway and is here just to avoid picking Mage Armor or Draconic). And this actually lets you make a Monk that dumped their Wisdom (which is pointless, but it's unique).
• bite is mostly just there, but occasionally it gets you a few temphp, and it is one of the few natural weapons that can be used with your hands full (of grappled people)
• swimming speed looks like a ribbon, but if you grapple/push someone without swimming speed into a lake, they'll be at disadvantage to attack with weapons other than daggers/shortswords/spears, while you can hit them with anything you want, because you have swimming speed
• hold breath is solid fun for a stealth approach or exploring sunken ruins, but sadly useless for drowning someone in combat, because it takes so many minutes
• free skill proficiencies!

...I thought about them way too much before making one as my current grappling Rogue.

 

[James Gasik]

Floating ASI's made a lot of races better. But I'm still not convinced Lizardfolk offers anything that Triton or Sea Elf doesn't. Sure you get a better AC, but better AC isn't really hard to get in 5e through other means.

And then there's the Grung...

 

[Micah Sweet]

For the reasons @James Gasik mentioned, and so it doesn’t stereotype an entire sapient species as unfeeling monsters more ready to pounce on their ally’s corpse and prepare to eat it the moment battle is finished rather than try a revivify spell

Is this really so different from defining all orcs as ‘violent strength obsessed savages’ yet people have taken great issues with that description

Lizard brain.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Floating ASI's made a lot of races better. But I'm still not convinced Lizardfolk offers anything that Triton or Sea Elf doesn't. Sure you get a better AC, but better AC isn't really hard to get in 5e through other means.

And then there's the Grung...

Mechanical stuff can and should be fiddled with.

 

[Shardstone]

Elf Joe: "Hey there Bob, I want to save the forest and my true love, will you help?"
Lizard Bob: "That's your word for mate, right? Sure. I also wish to save the forest and its bountiful resources, and I understand the importance of ensuring the success of your future brood. If I fall in battle, be sure to save a scrap of my skin before you eat me so you can prove to my mate that she should seek a new partner without conflict."

This is peak.

 

[Stormonu]

I don't think I'd want to give rider abilities to natural weapons for just anyone. I think creating a "Naturally Armed" fighting style (available to the Fighter, Ranger, Paladin? and Barbarian) that grants some ability, perhaps a feat and maybe a few Battlemaster maneuvers, a way for Monks to use them as martial arts weapons or some sneak attack options would be sufficient to make them an interesting and viable choice or even as a supplemental ability.

Having a tabaxi paladin fighting scimitar + claws, a tabaxi rogue fighting with bare claws, a tabaxi monk fighting tooth and claw, a two-knifed fighter and a two-handed sword fighter all should be able to end up packing around the same punch when all is said and done, but they may all have to go slightly different paths to reach it. Meanwhile, the tabaxi wizard whose going around threatening to claw commoners shouldn't strike that much fear for what their claws do - until he fires them 30' feet down range like poison darts...

 

[cbwjm]

what are the thoughts on these being natural weapon rider effects?
-Damage over time (takes an action to stop like alchemists fire)
-tripped/blinded/slowed/fear/poisoned/other conditions
-pushed/forced movement
-recover HP equal to damage dealt or hit die+con
-reach/projectile attacks
-expanded critical range
-energy damage types
-nonstandard action iniative (serving as an Extra Attack, can make opportunity attacks that don't burn reaction)
-targeting saving throws instead of AC

I think something like a bauriar or minotaur able to charge and knock down is a great addition to a natural weapon, even if it requires some use of movement. So it could deal 1d6 base damage, but move 10 feet and it also gets a knock down effect.

I could probably also see some sort of energy damage depending on the creature that has the natural attack and other conditions could also be good.