D&D 4E Necromancers in 4e

[GreatLemur]

That was another peeve of mine - no undead until level 5-8. And you're a necromancer.

Well, they sorta fixed that by introducing the summon undead series of spells, but they always struck me as a little bit dumb. Summon from where? Some infinite supply of rent-a-zombies off on some level of the Abyss?

I'd kind of like a necromancer class that starts off with a familiar-like "undead champion" ability. While you'll eventually get access to the power to animate hordes of corpses, you start off with just one permanent(-ish) undead servitor at any given time. It increases in power along with you, and whenever it's destroyed, you can animate a new one, but you're always limited to one at any given time.

I'd actually like to see necromancy as a school of magic go away, though. Cause fear is just a freaking enchantment spell with "spooky" flavor, and ray of enfeeblement is a transmutation debuff just like reduce person.

 

[Sadrik]

I think the warlock is going to kill the necromancer and take his stuff. compiling the two themes of infernal and undead into a whole "dark-magic" class. Very cool imo, and would make excellent villains as a GM

 

[Rechan]

I'd kind of like a necromancer class that starts off with a familiar-like "undead champion" ability. While you'll eventually get access to the power to animate hordes of corpses, you start off with just one permanent(-ish) undead servitor at any given time. It increases in power along with you, and whenever it's destroyed, you can animate a new one, but you're always limited to one at any given time.

Great minds think alike.

I'd actually like to see necromancy as a school of magic go away, though. Cause fear is just a freaking enchantment spell with "spooky" flavor, and ray of enfeeblement is a transmutation debuff just like reduce person.

I'd never thought of that, but this is true. Basically Necromancy as a School is just "This looks dark and not nice. So let's just give it to the necromancer."

 

[Rechan]

I think the warlock is going to kill the necromancer and take his stuff. compiling the two themes of infernal and undead into a whole "dark-magic" class. Very cool imo, and would make excellent villains as a GM

Yes. But what about for PCs?

And do we even know if the Warlock is in the PHB? It's either going to be the Warlock or the Sorcerer, and either way one is going to gank the other's stuff.

 

[Tequila Sunrise]

Any ideas on how this would work? I believe that PC necromancers are popular enough for the role not to be NPCed. There are many, many necromancer builds out there, a dread necromancer class, and a bajillion PrCs, including one for a necro-bard.

The necromancer class is not restricted to NPCs. The creation of undead generally is though, which is the way I like it. If a DM doesn't like it that way, he/she is free to either house rule otherwise or just run an evil campaign.

One of the things I hated about 3.5 was that, whenever new undead came into being via splatbooks, we were never told how a necromancer could create them. A good example is the entomber from LM. It says in the flavor text that necromancers create them as servants to deal with corpses, but gives us no way of doing so. This should change, but probably won't due to Mike's Monsters.

That would be helpful, even if it's just a note like "This undead can be created by means of the create greater undead (caster level 15)." or whatever.

Another thing was that clerics were better necromancers than wizards, even necromancy specialists. This should be changed. The wielders of arcane power should remain supreme in this regard, for, as rare as the cleric archtype is in fantasy, I haven't found any necro-clerics outside of D&D.

True dat! Clerics should be generalists, not specialists in anything.

Plus, could we get rid of the expensive component? Those little humanoid skeles are NOT worth 100 gp.

Well, something needs to be sacrificed to get any kind of permanent servant. Got any better ideas?

 

[Rechan]

Well, something needs to be sacrificed to get any kind of permanent servant. Got any better ideas?

They're not really "Permanent", given that one good swing from an NPC's sword and the skeleton is dead.

 

[Dalamar]

One of the things I hated about 3.5 was that, whenever new undead came into being via splatbooks, we were never told how a necromancer could create them. A good example is the entomber from LM. It says in the flavor text that necromancers create them as servants to deal with corpses, but gives us no way of doing so. This should change, but probably won't due to Mike's Monsters.

That would be helpful, even if it's just a note like "This undead can be created by means of the create greater undead (caster level 15)." or whatever.

More recent books, such as MM4 and 5, have been including such information. Plus they've also noted which Summon Monster list a monster belongs to, and other such things.

 

[Zurai]

I miss healing magic being necromancy. It makes far, far more sense than conjuration. I could see transmutation, but conjuration?!

 

[frankthedm]

Agree on every point the op makes. I want true old school Necromancers. I want to be able to make any kind of undead that exists (they should have exact creation methods for each in their monster entries.)

As DM, you will be able to create any undead you want to challenge your PCs.

One of the things I hated about 3.5 was that, whenever new undead came into being via splatbooks, we were never told how a necromancer could create them. A good example is the entomber from LM. It says in the flavor text that necromancers create them as servants to deal with corpses, but gives us no way of doing so. This should change, but probably won't due to Mike's Monsters.

Mearls would wisely decide Play-balacing new undead on the PC side is not worth as much designer time as it requires to be accurate. If the players face a nasty undead horror with a myriad of abilties that make the fight cool, that does not mean the PC caster should have a guarenteed way of making his own. If the DM wants to have such in his game on the player's side, the leg work is the DM's to do.

 

[Tequila Sunrise]

They're not really "Permanent", given that one good swing from an NPC's sword and the skeleton is dead.

That's like saying a level 1 character isn't really "alive", given that one good swing...you get the idea.

If you had to pay X gp per HD, that would be fine but getting any kind of permanent servant for free just doesn't sit well with me. I barely tolerate animal companions because they're part of core.