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Necromancy questions

Kavok

First Post
Alright I'm about to start a new campaign and I really want to try playing a Necromancer.

So far I plan on going straight cleric, putting all ability points into wis/cha.

I've selected the Undeath Domain (Libris Mortis) but I dunno what to pick for my second, any suggestions?

If I use 'Awaken Undead' on a zombie can I train him to be a cleric and raise his own undead? If I use 'Awaken Undead' on a zombie and then I stop controlling it what does it to?

Suggestions/Comments?
 

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Mechnomancer

First Post
I like Deathbound. You need to read the errata on the WotC site, because as written, it doesn't make any sense. It's great for helping you to create the undead army to take over the world. That being said, though, the Dread Necromancer from Heroes of Horror is a much better candidate.

As to the second part, save yourself some XP, and just take Leadership, or undead Leadership.
 

Kavok

First Post
Mechnomancer said:
I like Deathbound. You need to read the errata on the WotC site, because as written, it doesn't make any sense. It's great for helping you to create the undead army to take over the world. That being said, though, the Dread Necromancer from Heroes of Horror is a much better candidate.

As to the second part, save yourself some XP, and just take Leadership, or undead Leadership.

I'd still like it answered as having intelligent undead would be interesting to the DMs plot.

From what I'm reading online the 'strongest' Necromancer build is full cleric but im considering going Cleric/Lord Of The Damned.

http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=632562 - 'Lord of the Damned'
 

Mechnomancer

First Post
From what I'm reading online the 'strongest' Necromancer build is full cleric but im considering going Cleric/Lord Of The Damned.

If you can get that past your DM, then i say go for it. But if you want a powerfull undead army, the DN does allow for a bigger army. She is also less MAD than her cleric counterpart. But if the party needs a cleric, then you probably should go with cleric. The DN just has a better feel to it.
 

Seeten

First Post
Dread Necromancer is the best for controlling legions of undead. 4hd per level + cha mod(and cha is casting stat) = utterly huge armies of undead. You also get to be a lich at 20 for no LA.

Awakening a zombie would be based on the personality of the zombie, I'd say.
 

Kavok

First Post
I've been mostly going by this:
http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=599129

And it doesn't make Dread Necromancer sound very appealing over Clerics.

Do Dread Necromancer get to use spells like gate etc.. ?

The Leader (Dread Necromancer):
Dread Necromancers can’t even raise undead until 8th level, but when they get there they get a +2 bonus to hit points on all their undead hit dice that noone else gets and a higher hit die cap than anyone is comfortable with. They also Rebuke Undead and can Control Undead as well. From 8th level on, therefore, they are the skeleton horde platform. If you don’t have to survive those first couple levels, a Dread Necromancer can invest nothing whatsoever into melee combat and simply take all their feats and sink them into Corpse Crafting.

So assuming I go with Dread Necromancer how far do I take it? What do I switch off into? What feats should I be grabbing?
 
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Ipissimus

First Post
-sighs- Unfortunately, Necromancy's a long-denied branch of magic in the rules. Dread Necromancer or Cleric's about the only way it works (yes, I laugh at the specialist wizard option and mock its pants and eyebrows). So, generally, no matter what you do you're gonna feel the pain of having the rules against you. Either way, both classes only really pay off if you stick to one or the other, particularly Dread Necro. True Necromancer's not really a good option... not as bad as people make out (as long as you can play the class to your advantage), but not good on its own. Necromancy is all about the minions and, frankly, you'll never have enough of them on hand for the effort you'll put into them.

Dread Necromancer is nice, but you lose alot of versatility and nasty tricks. Buffing your undead minions with spells like Improved Invisibility or many, many, others gives them an edge that they don't normally enjoy (99% of undead being cannon fodder at best). In short, even though they get more Undead under their thumb, more is not necessarily better. Plus, they take all the disadvantages of Spontaneous Casting, most of which require you to spend feats that you won't be using to get the ones that make your minions tougher.

Cleric's a good all-round class, particularly if you've got living party members. Spell selection is wide and varied and you get almost as many spells per day as the Dread Necromancer. On top of that is armour proficiency and better BAB which is always useful. The key here is to cash in on the versatility of your spells to come up with more creative solutions to making the undead that you have tougher.

But, as I said, the whole Necromancy path is still deeply flawed, as many have pointed out. You'll never have enough minions, skeletons quickly become almost useless at higher levels (they are rather good at walking into traps...). The really good Undead are all intelligent, which is where you need to start looking at a high Cha character with maxed out Diplomacy, Buff and Intimidate. It may sound heretical, but if you can't control them with innate power, you have to convince them. Fortunately, Necromancy gives you an 'in' here, you can make life very painful for even Vampires between Rebuke, cure and other spells and abilities. Bargain with them, earn their respect, and carry a large smiting stick. It might be a pain in the butt, but it can be worth it.

Ok, I've ranted enough. DN or Cleric is up to you, I personally prefer Cleric but DN's a good class. DN you've gotta stick with for it to be worth your while through all 20 levels, Cleric gives you more breathing room... but you've still gotta keep your Rebuke and Caster Level up, so it can be a tad limiting. PrCs dealing with the Undead tend to be bad unless you can find an angle to use with one.
 

lukelightning

First Post
If I was a DM and you wanted an awakened zombie companion, I'd make you take leadership if you wanted it to get any class levels.

Of all the necromancer options, I like dread necromancer the best, because it gets all the fun/powerful arcane necromancy spells in addition to animate dead. Plus it gets some good class abilities like DR and dangerous touch abilities.

I was making a level 10 dread necromancer with some seriously deadly touch attacks; there is a feat in Complete Mage that gives you a sickening touch ability which, as I see it, stacks with the dread necro's charnel touch and touch spells. And then there was another feat that can add the shaken condition to any necromantic spell you cast. And on top of that I was going to add the black lore of moil feat from complete arcane (negative energy damage added to necromantic spells). So I could cast inflict serious wounds, use charnel touch and black lore of moil for a total of 4d8+3d6+15 damage, along with sickening and shaken conditions.
 

Kavok

First Post
So I should take Dread Necromancer all the way to 20 then?

What feats should I be grabbing?

Someone on another board was telling me to be a necropolitian true necromancer, whats a necropolitian?
 

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