D&D 5E Need help dealing with two bard campaign

[BeaniBum]

+18? Something still isn't right.

Charisma 20 =+5
Proficiency Bonus =+2
Performer Feat =+2 (double proficiency)
Expertise = x2
5+2+2=9x2=18


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[FrogReaver]

Charisma 20 =+5
Proficiency Bonus =+2
Performer Feat =+2 (double proficiency)
Expertise = x2
5+2+2=9x2=18


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Um no.

Expertise only double your proficiency bonus not your whole check.
Performer does the same thing.

At best that would be triple proficiency bonus if the abilities somehow stacked. At worst abilities that double proficiency bonus don't stack and it would be double proficiency bonus despite both abilities.

So at best you are looking at +9 or +11.

Most of us are of the opinion that the double proficiency bonus from multiple sources will not stack.

 

[uzirath]

Besides solving the math (which needs to happen) consider it an opportunity to adjust the challenge level of the adventure. They're ultra persuasive. Ok. Combat challenges, traps, puzzles, etc. are still fair game. But you needn't avoid the social pillar.

Consider social challenges that match their abilities. What if they're up against an evil bard with a 20 charisma? Or a succubus or other extra-planar entity? Or a charm wizard (or cabal)? Priests of a god of stoicness who resist social skills? (Or priests of a competing bardic god who are just as persuasive as the PCs.)

Maybe Lex Luthor recognizes their amazing charisma and attempts to trick them into achieving his aims. (He never had any luck convincing the council to do X, but these foreign fast talkers can totally get the job done for him.)

What if they use their persuasion to achieve something, but it backfires, causing calamity to the poor sops that they charmed? Then their reputation is shot and they may feel morally obligated to clean up the mess.

Add layers of complexity to obfuscate things. In other words, have NPCs who believe things that aren't true (or are only partially true). Thus the players can't always trust the intel that they persuade out of people.

If your play style fits, you could have them encounter a curse or magic item that duplicates them with opposite goals. They'd be trying to outwit themselves a la Mark and Miles Vorkosigan.

Admittedly, though, your town may need some adjustment. (It seemed like such a normal town at first...)



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[Greenstone.Walker]

Charisma 20 =+5
Proficiency Bonus =+2
Performer Feat =+2 (double proficiency)
Expertise = x2
5+2+2=9x2=18
[/url]

Yep, there is the problem.

The correct calculation is: 5 + (2×2) = +9

Expertise only doubles your profiency bonus. "Your proficiency bonus is doubled for any ability check you make…"

The Performer feat does the same. "You gain proficiency in the Performance skill. If you are already proficient in the skill, you add double your proficiency bonus to checks you make with it."

If you have multiple ways to add or multiply your profiency bonus, you only get to do it once. "Your proficiency bonus can’t be added to a single die roll or other number more than once. For example, if two different rules say you can add your proficiency bonus to a Wisdom saving throw, you nevertheless add the bonus only once when you make the save. Occasionally, your proficiency bonus might be multiplied or divided (doubled or halved, for example) before you apply it. For example, the rogue’s Expertise feature doubles the proficiency bonus for certain ability checks. If a circumstance suggests that your proficiency bonus applies more than once to the same roll, you still add it only once and multiply or divide it only once. "

If you have the Performer feat, then taking Expertise in Performance is wasted.

Additionally, the GM always has the option of just saying "no". The rule of the game is: (1) Players describe intention and approach. (2) GM decides success, fail, or uncertain. (2)(a) If uncertain then roll dice. (3) GM and Players narrate the outcome.

Sometimes, it doesn't matter how persuasive you are, the person just can't be swayed. Might I suggest intimidation or bribery instead?

Finally, two bards with excellent diplomacy sounds like lots of fun! Imagine Han Solo and Lando Calrissian in the same group. Watch Oceans 11 and see how having several suave, smooth-talking charmers doesn't hinder the plot at all. Two bards sounds to me like the players want some cool caper-style adventures.

 

[Soul Stigma]

Yep, there is the problem.

The correct calculation is: 5 + (2×2) = +7

Expertise only doubles your profiency bonus. "Your proficiency bonus is doubled for any ability check you make…"

The Performer feat does the same. "You gain proficiency in the Performance skill. If you are already proficient in the skill, you add double your proficiency bonus to checks you make with it."

If you have multiple ways to add or multiply your profiency bonus, you only get to do it once. "Your proficiency bonus can’t be added to a single die roll or other number more than once. For example, if two different rules say you can add your proficiency bonus to a Wisdom saving throw, you nevertheless add the bonus only once when you make the save. Occasionally, your proficiency bonus might be multiplied or divided (doubled or halved, for example) before you apply it. For example, the rogue’s Expertise feature doubles the proficiency bonus for certain ability checks. If a circumstance suggests that your proficiency bonus applies more than once to the same roll, you still add it only once and multiply or divide it only once. "

If you have the Performer feat, then taking Expertise in Performance is wasted.

Additionally, the GM always has the option of just saying "no". The rule of the game is: (1) Players describe intention and approach. (2) GM decides success, fail, or uncertain. (2)(a) If uncertain then roll dice. (3) GM and Players narrate the outcome.

Sometimes, it doesn't matter how persuasive you are, the person just can't be swayed. Might I suggest intimidation or bribery instead?

Finally, two bards with excellent diplomacy sounds like lots of fun! Imagine Han Solo and Lando Calrissian in the same group. Watch Oceans 11 and see how having several suave, smooth-talking charmers doesn't hinder the plot at all. Two bards sounds to me like the players want some cool caper-style adventures.

^ this is why I said something was still wrong. Unfortunately I post on here often while at work with no references, but +18 was...yeah.