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Need ideas for persistent BBEG

RealMarkP

First Post
So the party is currently in the middle of a dungeon crawl. Illithids are using the dungeon of this ruined castle to conduct experiments on creatures, both local and extra planar. Their experiments have resulted in some peculiar aberrations being formed. The dungeon itself has many rooms that are devoted to experiments and the PCs thoroughly enjoyed mucking about in alchemy and steampunk-like technologies. The big reveal will be a dragon, who is kept captive in the dungeon for two purposes. The first being that the Dragon's blood is being harvested, the second is that the dragon's breath weapon is being used to forge a specific type of blade. The dragon is unhappy, obviously, and will be pleased to be set free.

Anyway, the dungeon is very linear and has an end, as written. Ideally, I'd like to extrapolate a BBEG from this dungeon, but cannot (for the life of me) figure out how one would fit in. The BBEG should be able to get away with something that the party will remember and perhaps pursue.

The BBEG doesn't have to be an Illithid and I'm using the Mind Flayers of Thoon (MM5) as the general enemies, not including the elder brain due to CR.

Any ideas?
 
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Samloyal23

Adventurer
An alienist who summoned the illithids to the place in an attempt to gain secret knowledge of the Far Realms from them. Give the insane caster a pseudo-natural pet, say a mutated rust monster. Or make a pseudo-natural dragon with psionic powers. Or create an illithidae version of a standard monster and give it psionic powers...
 

RealMarkP

First Post
The Illithid rust monster idea is great. I think I know what this BBEG will look like. However, if and when he gets away, I'd like to have him re-engage the party somehow; to make him persistent in some way. Any idea how to make this BBEG a reoccurring character? This is what I'm struggling with the most; how do I take him from a dungeon 'manager' to being a true villain.
 

Celebrim

Legend
You are looking at the problem wrong.

It may be too late to add a persistant BBEG at this point. But you can introduce one.

In practice, an NPC can't be expected to survive too many close shaves with the PC's before they'll eventually get them. Hoping for that often leads DMs astray into misapplication of narrative force, by introducing DMPCs, DM pets, and NPCs that enjoy plot protection. All of that are tools best left on the bench and are in my opinion beneath the dignity of a skillful veteren game master.

My general formula for introducing a reoccuring BBEG guy is the following:

1) Introduce a sympathetic likeable NPC in a setting in which the players aren't expecting to find BBEGs and in a role where they are ready to classify the NPC in some other way - quest provider, mentor, shopkeeper, ally, local ruler, etc. Genera savvy individuals may expect this, so introduce red herrings and mix the NPC among other NPCs who really are who they seem to be.
2) Repeatedly work this character into minor scenes.
3) Introduce mini-bosses. These are the BBEG's minions. Each has a certain number of 'clues' that reference the BBEG through an alternate name - correspondance with the BBEG or other minions that reference the BBEG, monologuing, death scenes, interrogation, overheard conversations, acts of worship of the BBEG, etc. This introduces the idea that there is this BBEG out there, the master mind behind all of the troubles that the PC's are working through. If the mini-boss manages to escape once or twice to become a reoccuring character of his own, well so much the better.
4) Build multiple settings for the BBEG that have a 'trap doors' built into them. These are ways you can gauratee the BBEG escapes once the PC's figure out that the BBEG is actually the Janitor from scene two and you've Scooby Doo'd them. Trap doors include obvious things like Teleport Portals, Chute Traps, Charmed Genii/Fiends that carry of the BBEG if he's in trouble, etc. Pretty much anything that the BBEG can use without taking a disruptable action (or an action at all) and which is very hard for the players to stop. You are building dungeons where the goal is to give the BBEG a chance to maniacly laugh or say, "Curse you, I've been foiled again.", and then get the heck out of dodge. Sometimes you have have trap doors that don't look like trap doors. There are a lot of spells that let a caster play games with the players and escape their powerful narrative punch - Projected Image, Programmed Illusion, Simlacrum, Clone, Improved Magic Mouth, etc. - all let the player interact with the NPC in a way that keeps the BBEG safe. Make sure you have multiple trap doors, and make sure you have adequate 'moats' to delay attack on the BBEG. Moats are things like minions, literal moats or other obstacles, traps, walls of force, glasssteel windows, etc. that separate the BBEG from his pursuers and help ensure the getaway. If you are counting on Teleport, and round 1 they hit the BBEG with something that prevents teleport, then your BBEG is probably NOT a reoccuring villain unless you've also planned a Chute Trap or One Way Secret Door that leads to a trap filled labyrinth that delays pursuit etc. If you don't have a sufficient moat, and they grapple the BBEG on round one, then this probably isn't a reoccuring villain. Races or monster types or classes that help with these powers of evasion are nice, but don't overrely on that. The BBEG's main weapon is as in stories, his ability to out think the PC's and stay one step ahead of them. That requires you to out think the PC's and stay one step ahead of them. Fortunately, you, like the supervillains of story, have virtually unlimited resources at your command a likely have players who'll accept that genera convention without question.
5) Keep in mind that there is no way to gaurantee a BBEG is going to reoccur. Plan for it, but don't plan on it. Have contingencies. The simpliest contingency is always, "The BBEG was actually working for someone else even more secretive and sinister."
 
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RealMarkP

First Post
I have not used a DM PC in many years, and I'd like to keep it that way. Your 5th point might be best used in my situation. Having the PCs enter a chamber, where the mini-boss is in conversation with a projected image of the actual BBEG, a cloaked individual. The scene in Star Wars where Vader talks to a hologram of the Emperor comes to mind. It got me thinking about the Illithids in this dungeon, that they could be just one cell in a larger, decentralized organization structure. The Thoon (MM5) angle might help in this regard.

Another angle I thought of, which might brand me as an ass, is to have the PCs captured. The Illithids would, one-by-one, experiment on the PCs with things like Warp Touch or grafts. Some may be beneficial to the party while other mutations would be detrimental. It could be fun to graft one PC's head onto the body of another PC. The two PCs could fight over who controls what arm.
 

Trit One-Ear

Explorer
The Illithid rust monster idea is great. I think I know what this BBEG will look like. However, if and when he gets away, I'd like to have him re-engage the party somehow; to make him persistent in some way. Any idea how to make this BBEG a reoccurring character? This is what I'm struggling with the most; how do I take him from a dungeon 'manager' to being a true villain.

Higher stakes and a larger scope for his plan is one way to make him more than just a mad scientist at the end of a dungeon. What does he plan to do with the knowledge and mutated creatures he has gained? What does this specific blade being forged do that makes it a real threat. Depending what level and how epic your campaign is, maybe it has the power to slay gods (or one god in particular). Or perhaps his plan is as simple as invsding a city or kingdom with his army of mutated monsters and arsenal of eldritch spells. it just so happens this city is where the pc's loved ones live...

While I generally am opposed to giving a villain a scripted escape, not allowing the players a chance to slay him, it does sometimes help the larger plot. Vanishing into the Far Realm is an obvious option, or a prepared teleportation circle etc. For a slightly creepier edge, you could let the heroes defeat him, only to find a series of clones on the next room. They can destroy the clones, but one of the tubes has been recently opened... and the clone is missing. This gives the players a personal feeling of being slighted that will add some great tension to the next time they encounter the villain.

One lat option, as several have stated above, is to let the, kill this villain, but use that to introduce the true master villain of the scenario. Turns out this guy was just a pawn, a servant of a larger power with larger schemes and plans. You can even build up the vileness and hatred for this new archvillain by having him somehow deliver the killing blow to his servant, cheating the heroes of their honorable win, and eliminating a chance for interrogation.

All fun ideas, good luck!

Trit
 

Celebrim

Legend
Ok, I'll go ahead and tell you what I think you should do.

The Ithilid High Council has decided that humanity would make an excellent long term food source, but that in its current state it is simply to wild and dangerous of an animal to make husbandry of the species profitable. It therefore has concieved of a plan to improve the breed, resulting in a species suitable for domestication and more fit for consumption. To this end, about 50 years ago after centuries of experimentation, it successfully produced a prototype model - the first of a new a highly intelligent human subspecies with increased cranial capacity which is nonetheless completely docile in the presence of an mindflayer, completely unable to shield or protect its mind from mindflayers, and willing and even eager to be devoured and eaten. Unfortunately, before the breeding population could be exploited, a group of wild humans disrupted the experiment and killed all but one sample of the tame breeding stock (then infants). These humans were eradicated (or so the council believes), and the project restarted sadly without the benefits of the best minds that had been devouted to this esoteric project. The project was put on the back burner, some thought that the interferance in the project was proof it had been poorly conceived from the start and instead advocated continuing research in exterminating humanity like the plague it is, but the surviving single prototype was thought to retain some salvagable value. It was provided with suitable mental conditioning, and then released into the wild with instructions for reproducing itself with the eventual goal of patterning the wild population after the successful prototype.

This prototype is now a respected human archmage which you'll locate in your campaign world under whatever cover suits you.

The prototype has a multistage plan:

1) Natural reproduction: Experiment in natural breeding with willing and unwilling partners as can be provided. When the children of these unions reach sufficient maturity, expose to Illithids to test reaction. Those that respond favorably, suffer to live and direct to continue the experiment. Those that show fear can be salvaged as food. This stage of the experiment could yield good results in the long run, but is very slow even by accelerating the breeding program via regularly obtaining unwilling subjects. Also, some few experimental subjects escape observation, and so cannot be later tested - though they presumably will spread their nature unwittingly to the general population so its not a total loss. At present, the are perhaps 100 direct descendents of the prototype, only a fraction having knowledge of their true nature. The oldest are about age 25. The most successful experiments act as prototype ones direct trusted underlings, though there are some worrisome signs that the blended nature leads to imperfect results, remenent instinctual self-preservation, remenent compasion and sentimentality, etc. Many dozens have no knowledge of their heredity.
2) Cloning: A suitable population of direct descendents has allowed the second stage of the plan to commence, breeding large numbers of sexually desirable clones to distribute amongst the wild population where they will be preferably bred with and gradually replace the natural strain. To this end, a rural village has been recreated to provide cover for the cloning factory. Genes are carefully selected to maximize docility and obedience, while providing a suitable range of phenotypes so as to avoid alarming the wild population and alerting them of the danger. Rapid generation and maturation of clones has allowed several hundred mature specimens to be obtained, and these are already now breeding in the wild. However, very high maturation rates produce subjects which frighten the wild population. To produce the best results, slower more natural maturation rates are used together with education in normal wild human behavior and sufficient psychic surgery is used to remove memories of any unnatural experience from the subjects memories before release into the wild.
3) Neutralization- The most ambitious project is to modify wild human pathogens such that they will, upon infection, not result in death but rather produce mutations which approximate those found in the prototype. When fully developed and released, this patheogen is expected to rapidly convert the greater mass of the wild human population into docile and eager slaves, content to fatten themselves and maintain their own health in preparation for being used as food stuffs. Isolated pockets of immune humans can then be leisurely hunted if it suits such Ilithids which are stimulated by such sport.

At the start of the campaign, stage 2 is underway and stage three is in the final stages before completion.
 

Samloyal23

Adventurer
A lone illithid scholar is investigating human psychology for better ways to non-psionically manipulate and control populations. The brain-eater has discovered the trauma produced by rape and is experimenting with having thralls under its domination assault and traumatize each other and various random "wild" humans in nearby surface communities. Sometimes, for more direct experience, it uses its Switch Mind power to take over a human and then practicing raping, seducing, and molesting humanoids of different ages and races, sometimes switching bodies in the middle of an interaction to create further chaos and trauma among the participants. Several humanoids have ended up dead or in prison, blood feuds have been started, and at least one victim has been driven insane. All of which explains why one adventurer just woke up in bed with a strange woman tied up naked and gagged next to him while a member of the city guard is banging on the door of the room of the inn yelling the adventurer's name and screaming for his blood...
 

Ratskinner

Adventurer
So the party is currently in the middle of a dungeon crawl. Illithids are using the dungeon of this ruined castle to conduct experiments on creatures, both local and extra planar. Their experiments have resulted in some peculiar aberrations being formed. The dungeon itself has many rooms that are devoted to experiments and the PCs thoroughly enjoyed mucking about in alchemy and steampunk-like technologies. The big reveal will be a dragon, who is kept captive in the dungeon for two purposes. The first being that the Dragon's blood is being harvested, the second is that the dragon's breath weapon is being used to forge a specific type of blade. The dragon is unhappy, obviously, and will be pleased to be set free.

Anyway, the dungeon is very linear and has an end, as written. Ideally, I'd like to extrapolate a BBEG from this dungeon, but cannot (for the life of me) figure out how one would fit in. The BBEG should be able to get away with something that the party will remember and perhaps pursue.

The BBEG doesn't have to be an Illithid and I'm using the Mind Flayers of Thoon (MM5) as the general enemies, not including the elder brain due to CR.

Any ideas?

Somehow, I'm thinking deception/misdirection. Like, the true BBEG is actually a small psychic slug, worm, or other critter that dominates the lieutenants and is then overlooked in the aftermath. Ooh! better yet, maybe it looks like a cute kitten or something innocent like that. The critter is smart enough to avoid infecting the party members, and thus giving away its game. It may even let one of the party members "adopt" it as a pet and pretend to help out (at least as much as this poor lil' kitty can.) All the while, it gathers more intel and dominates more lieutenants and lackeys to its cause. Perhaps manipulating them into getting into position to acquire a bigger better dragon for his next go at....whatever, world domination? Metamorphosis into it's adult form? Making an appropriate nest to attract a mate?
 

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