Need opinion on freedom of movement and grappling

[Piratecat]

First, best to specify the rules as written for freedom of movement:

This spell enables you or a creature you touch to move and attack normally for the duration of the spell, even under the influence of magic that usually impedes movement, such as paralysis, solid fog, slow, and web. The subject automatically succeeds on any grapple check made to resist a grapple attempt, as well as on grapple checks or Escape Artist checks made to escape a grapple or a pin.

This is not a 3.5 change that I particularly like. It's driving me nuts that placing this 4th lvl spell on a bad guy completely negates the grappling from the PCs' giant-sized grappling specialist, or that it stops an ancient red dragon from swallowing a PC.

As a result, I'd like to change it. I have a few options for doing so, and welcome opinions and kibitzing. The obvious options I've thought of include:

1. As in 3e, the spell doesn't affect grappling at all.

2. The spell gives a +1 bonus per caster level to any grapple check made to resist a grapple attempt, as well as on grapple checks or Escape Artist checks made to escape a grapple or a pin. This bonus maxes out at whatever the die cap is for 4th lvl spells -- I think it's 15.

3. the spell gives a +1 bonus per caster level to help escape grapples, no max limit.

I'm strongly leaning towards #2. Good idea, bad idea, I'm making much ado about nothing?

Thanks!

 

[UltimaGabe]

This is not a 3.5 change that I particularly like. It's driving me nuts that it stops an ancient red dragon from swallowing a PC.

Just one little nitpick. The Freedom of Movement spell is not by any means stopping an Ancient Red Dragon from swallowing a PC- after all, Ancient Red Dragons (or any Red Dragons, or even any Dragons for that matter) can't swallow PCs anyway. By the core rules, that is. None of them have the Swallow Whole ability.

 

[Piratecat]

Let's replace "red dragon" with "Advanced T-Rex," and proceed on from there. Pedant.

 

[Plane Sailing]

I'd normally be tempted to go (a) since I don't see why it should affect grappling at all.

On the other hand,being grappled is such a horrible thing for casters that (b) seems fairer.

I prefer (b) to (c) since it makes Moment of Prescience more useful when you get snatched by the colossal red dragon...

That's what I'd do, I think.

 

[genshou]

This is one of the reasons I have remained an avid 3rd Edition Cultist.

In much the same way that freedom of movement doesn't prevent melee attacks, ranged attacks, bull rushes, tripping, overruns, and knockback, it doesn't make sense that grappling should be negated, either. While it can be argued from a "balance" perspective, it just defies logic to do so. Still, if you must grant some form of protection against grappling, I suggest option 2.

 

[j_lovescoffee]

I dunno. Since the range is "touched", I think its not a bad spell. After all, if a spellcaster gets grappled, they are essentially, er, 'frakked'. If it was ranged, I'd say it sucked. But for touched or self, its not so bad. IMHO.

 

[Capellan]

Hey! I broke PirateCat's game!

Personally, I'm in the 'much ado about nothing' camp on this one.

Galthia (?): "I grapple."
PC: "Your hands slide right off."
Velendo: "Greater Dispel Magic."

Problem solved

That said, I think either 2 or 3 would be a fine compromise if the issue is really bugging you. Do the PCs have any strong opinions about this?

 

[quetzyl]

The justification for freedom of movement

On the other side of the coin, there are plenty of creatures that have +60 grapple modifiers (eg collosal monsterous scorpion +58, CR 12). A 20th level 1/2 orc barbarian with maxed out str and improved grapple will have a grapple bonus of +41 when raging. He has about a 1 in 20 chance of beating the grapple. Any other character has no chance at all. Freedom of Movement as it currently stands is the only thing that gives a wizard the slightest chance of escaping such a grapple. A +15 to the check would still make it impossible for the level 20 wizard to avoid the grapple. Also note there are several other spells that negate or auto escape from grapples, eg Gaseous form, d-door (verbal only, so can be cast while grappling with a DC24 concentration check).

Cheers,
quetzyl

 

[genshou]

On the other side of the coin, there are plenty of creatures that have +60 grapple modifiers (eg collosal monsterous scorpion +58, CR 12). A 20th level 1/2 orc barbarian with maxed out str and improved grapple will have a grapple bonus of +41 when raging. He has about a 1 in 20 chance of beating the grapple. Any other character has no chance at all. Freedom of Movement as it currently stands is the only thing that gives a wizard the slightest chance of escaping such a grapple. A +15 to the check would still make it impossible for the level 20 wizard to avoid the grapple. Also note there are several other spells that negate or auto escape from grapples, eg Gaseous form, d-door (verbal only, so can be cast while grappling with a DC24 concentration check).

Cheers,
quetzyl

Right, and I think the mage should be limited to just using those spells, instead of extending the freedom of movement to include resistance to grappling. I might allow a character with freedom of movement to be immune to pinning, but not grappling. That's just too abstract for me.

 

[Lela]

I've been thinking that it's a bit too strong myself, though I'll admit that when it was found in game a month ago I could be quoted as saying, "Wow, they actually made that spell useful. Cool."

But to completely negate such a powerful advantage as grappling? That's too much. Even feats, such as Close Combat Fighting (CW, I think), give somewhat elaborate rules as to how they protect you.

I'd say go with option 2.