JacktheRabbit
Explorer
I've heard of pissing napalm but OUCH!!
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Need some help here. DM wackiness in action
- Thread starter JacktheRabbit
- Start date
photon1966
First Post
Well i would have ruled that the water would have doused the fire. Why it did is because the Alchemists fire to my recall is a paste and sticks to the target and if doused with water would have not spread but been drenched, and snuffed out any flame.
Maybe, MAYBE... the flames would still have been present but it's only a 5x5 area if I recall corectly. The whole area is wet, people are there from what it sounds like, who can stamp out the flames, pull out cloaks or sleeping rolls, etc.
The Purify would not have helped in my opinion. The spell does not separate the two but removes it, and the water is all over the floor, so what area are you purifying and then the toxins are really in the water but rather below or on top of it, not part of it technically. If this was in a container of sorts then yes I think it would work.
But otherwise still very inventive, but maybe the gm should have come up with a better method to acheive his ends. What was all the old furniture made of? Oil soaked wicker?
Just my thoughts.
Maybe, MAYBE... the flames would still have been present but it's only a 5x5 area if I recall corectly. The whole area is wet, people are there from what it sounds like, who can stamp out the flames, pull out cloaks or sleeping rolls, etc.
The Purify would not have helped in my opinion. The spell does not separate the two but removes it, and the water is all over the floor, so what area are you purifying and then the toxins are really in the water but rather below or on top of it, not part of it technically. If this was in a container of sorts then yes I think it would work.
But otherwise still very inventive, but maybe the gm should have come up with a better method to acheive his ends. What was all the old furniture made of? Oil soaked wicker?
Just my thoughts.
DevoutlyApathetic
First Post
Water doesn't smother fires. Water removes the excess heat needed to continue the exothermic reaction.
Alchemist's fire is supposed to be Greek fire. The stuff they used to set a bay on fire...(It floats on top of water.)
The purify is a bit much and comes down to wether the stuff is toxic or not. It's oddly written since even water can be toxic....
Alchemist's fire is supposed to be Greek fire. The stuff they used to set a bay on fire...(It floats on top of water.)
The purify is a bit much and comes down to wether the stuff is toxic or not. It's oddly written since even water can be toxic....
Uller
Adventurer
I think removing an oily impurity from water is completely within the letter an spirit of the spell. It removes impurities and makes the water safe to drink. Water with an oily substance on top of it is definately not safe to drink (assuming the said oil is not something safe like vegetable oil).
Oh...and there is nothing in the description of Alchemists Fire to indicate it is oily. In fact, it says it is a "sticky, adhesive substance". Jumping into a body of water automatically extinguishes it...so I'd have allowed the water to extinguish it to.
Oh...and there is nothing in the description of Alchemists Fire to indicate it is oily. In fact, it says it is a "sticky, adhesive substance". Jumping into a body of water automatically extinguishes it...so I'd have allowed the water to extinguish it to.
doktorstick
First Post
I'm not sure it would put it out if you think of it as Greek fire. Perhaps dousing it with water smothers the flames effectively putting it out, but causing steam to roll in a 5-ft. radius causing 1d4 scalding damage. 
I do not think purify food and water would have helped.
I would award you an Ad-Hoc XP bonus for the encounter for quick thinking and ingenuity.
/ds
I do not think purify food and water would have helped.
I would award you an Ad-Hoc XP bonus for the encounter for quick thinking and ingenuity.
/ds
ShadowPaly
First Post
Man that was very creative. In my game it would have worked. But you know how it is: the DM is always keeping you down.
Celebrim
Legend
Since 'Burning Oil' has been since 1st edition, 'Greek Fire' (now Alchemists Fire, since 'Greek' is setting specific), I would agree with the DM that putting water on it is not sufficient to put it out.
I would not agree that it would spread. Lamp oil might, but then again, I'd give you a chance to put burning lamp oil out with water.
I also think that the 'purify food and water' was just creative enough to be worth having work, even if it might ruin my plans by keeping the building intact (for now). However, on the fly, with a player attempting to use a spell for something other than it obvious and intended use, I might well have hastily ruled conservatively that it didn't work to avoid unintended consequences that a more liberal ruling might have latter in the game.
The question is really: using the more liberal interpretation, that the spell turns collodial mixtures and other composites into pure water - is there anything broken that this spell might get regularly used to do? At what point does this spell start working like a poor man's disentegrate, and where do you draw the line? How big of a piece of garbage gets disentigrated to make the water 'pure'?
With some time to think, I probably would have ruled that the spell turned the Alchemist's Fire into burning 'pure' animal fat or similar edible oil and therefore made it easier to extinguish. Though still not easy to extinguish. It remains a 'grease fire'.
I would not agree that it would spread. Lamp oil might, but then again, I'd give you a chance to put burning lamp oil out with water.
I also think that the 'purify food and water' was just creative enough to be worth having work, even if it might ruin my plans by keeping the building intact (for now). However, on the fly, with a player attempting to use a spell for something other than it obvious and intended use, I might well have hastily ruled conservatively that it didn't work to avoid unintended consequences that a more liberal ruling might have latter in the game.
The question is really: using the more liberal interpretation, that the spell turns collodial mixtures and other composites into pure water - is there anything broken that this spell might get regularly used to do? At what point does this spell start working like a poor man's disentegrate, and where do you draw the line? How big of a piece of garbage gets disentigrated to make the water 'pure'?
With some time to think, I probably would have ruled that the spell turned the Alchemist's Fire into burning 'pure' animal fat or similar edible oil and therefore made it easier to extinguish. Though still not easy to extinguish. It remains a 'grease fire'.
Jondor_Battlehammer
First Post
It sounds like the first part could go either way, depending on how you percieve alchemists fire to work. So long as the reaction is consistent in the future, just tough luck that time, but good thinking.
As far as purifying, I would not have allowed you to use it to stop the fire, it is not a disintegrate spell. However, so long as the water was meant for consumption, and there were no bits that could be EASILY filtered, rocks, twigs, wads of paper, a dragon..., I would say that the spell purifies the water completely. Whether the stuff is floating on top or not, or even if it is toxic or not, is not in keeping with the spell. Sugar, olive oil, kool-aid mix, it isn't water, and therefore the water is impure. It may be a cantrip, but it is still a (read A) basis for the creation of holy water, to insure it's purity before blessed. And thats so pure it hurts.
As far as purifying, I would not have allowed you to use it to stop the fire, it is not a disintegrate spell. However, so long as the water was meant for consumption, and there were no bits that could be EASILY filtered, rocks, twigs, wads of paper, a dragon..., I would say that the spell purifies the water completely. Whether the stuff is floating on top or not, or even if it is toxic or not, is not in keeping with the spell. Sugar, olive oil, kool-aid mix, it isn't water, and therefore the water is impure. It may be a cantrip, but it is still a (read A) basis for the creation of holy water, to insure it's purity before blessed. And thats so pure it hurts.
For all you folks saying "Greek Fire", read the description of Alchemist's Fire, would you?
PHB pg 113:
"Alchemist's Fire: Alchemist's fire is a sticky, adhesive substance that ignites when exposed to air. ...snip for brevity... Leaping into a lake or magically extinguishing the flames automatically smothers the flames."
This is not what most people think of when the term "Greek Fire" is used (not that everyone even thinks of the same thing when that term is used, but I digress). Nor is it a simple oil that will float on or be spread by water. It is "sticky", not "oily". In fact, the description clearly states that sufficient water will smother it. One shot of Create Water on an open floor may be insufficient to smother the stuff, but the guy did have the right idea.
PHB pg 113:
"Alchemist's Fire: Alchemist's fire is a sticky, adhesive substance that ignites when exposed to air. ...snip for brevity... Leaping into a lake or magically extinguishing the flames automatically smothers the flames."
This is not what most people think of when the term "Greek Fire" is used (not that everyone even thinks of the same thing when that term is used, but I digress). Nor is it a simple oil that will float on or be spread by water. It is "sticky", not "oily". In fact, the description clearly states that sufficient water will smother it. One shot of Create Water on an open floor may be insufficient to smother the stuff, but the guy did have the right idea.
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