Need some help with a potentially broken combo

[phoenixgod2000]

I have a player with both Anticipatory strike (lets you act out of turn but lose your next turn) and temporal acceleration (Time Stop but shorter) and he uses them in combination to...

Take his action, use AS--immediate action, take another action, use Temporal acceleration for two rounds of action as a swift action, loses the first round because of anticipatory strike, takes his second round of actions, anticipatory strikes again, comes out of TA, does his action , and Temporal acceleration...

rinse and repeat till he decides to stop taking actions or runs out of power points. It is ingenious and as far as I can tell, completely legal--just completely broken.

Am I missing something. Has someone else come across this little gem before? What the hell should I do?

Jon

 

[darthkilmor]

Am I missing something. Has someone else come across this little gem before? What the hell should I do?

Jon

Send an Inevitable after him, specifically the Quarut(CR 17) from Fiend Folio, whose specialty is those who disrupt space and time.

 

[irdeggman]

First off the rules don't allow that to happen.

AS is an immediate action power - which means it uses your next swift action.

TA is a swift action power.

You are only allowed 1 swift action in a round.

So unless you are house-ruling allowing substitution of a swift action for a move action (or standard action) this combo should not work, technically.

 

[werk]

Yeah, despite how many actions he's taking, the limitation is that it's still one round. Since he starts with an immediate action, he can't do another swift or immediate action until the round after next. I guess it depends on how you rule "apparent time" I'm not able to really find much info about the term.

Also, "While your temporal acceleration is in effect, other creatures are invulnerable to your attacks and powers. This means you cannot target a creature with any attack or power." So what's he doing during this loop, buffing? When he comes out of TA he's shaken anyway.

It seems a good tactic for running away...

 

[phoenixgod2000]

The character in question is gestalt beguiler/Psion so he has lots of buffing/illusions/magic items that he can use while speeded up. The greater issue is that he is using anticipatory strike while temporally accelerated to take another turns worth of actions upon coming out of temporal acceleration.

As for the swift/immediate action thing, I thought it did work. you get an swift/imediate action on each turn--so he anticipatory strikes--immediate, gets another round of actions and thus a second swift/immediate action which he uses to accelerate for two rounds, bites the first round as part of anticipatory strike, gets a second time stopped round of actions, and at the end of the second round, he anticipatory strikes again to take more actions once he gets out of temporal acceleration.

But if he gets one swift/immediate action per combat cycle (one rotation through initiative for everyone) then I agree it doesn't work but I didn't think swift actions work that way.

Jon

 

[Infiniti2000]

You are only allowed 1 swift action in a round.

Per the SRD writeup (Hypertext), "You can perform one swift action per turn." Per the SRD writeup on Temporal Acceleration when it says "you resume acting during your current turn", it seems clear to me that each round spent in the temporal acceleration is a different turn (of yours). Thus, you should be able to perform a swift action in each round therein.

The major problem I see, however, is that AS has what I feel is a clear example on not allowing it more than once in this turn.

 

[irdeggman]

Per the SRD writeup (Hypertext), "You can perform one swift action per turn." Per the SRD writeup on Temporal Acceleration when it says "you resume acting during your current turn", it seems clear to me that each round spent in the temporal acceleration is a different turn (of yours). Thus, you should be able to perform a swift action in each round therein.

The major problem I see, however, is that AS has what I feel is a clear example on not allowing it more than once in this turn.

Right, it is the combo of the two that is not allowed since one is an immediate action and the other is a swift action.

 

[Zelc]

Immediate actions, when used not during your turn, replaces your next turn's swift action. So he can do this (say he gets 10 on init):

Inititiative 10: Temporal Acceleration (Swift action), Standard action, Move action
Initiative 9: Anticipatory Strike (Immediate action), swift action replaced by immediate action, Standard action, move action.

So he can't cast Temporal Acceleration again there.

 

[KarinsDad]

Per the SRD writeup (Hypertext), "You can perform one swift action per turn." Per the SRD writeup on Temporal Acceleration when it says "you resume acting during your current turn", it seems clear to me that each round spent in the temporal acceleration is a different turn (of yours). Thus, you should be able to perform a swift action in each round therein.

AS allows an early action and uses up the Swift Action for this turn doing so.

TA cannot be manifested with that early action BECAUSE the Swift Action for that turn is already used up. He already used it up manifesting AS. It's gone. It doesn't matter if the PC has 50 actions that he is able to do in that turn, he still cannot do another Swift or Immediate Action.


Now, using your interpretation of Temporal Acceleration (i.e. the extra rounds of actions in TA are also extra turns) and doing TA first (AS cannot be done first as above) gives multiple turns to the PC, it still cannot be done and does nothing.

TA for multiple "rounds/turns". In round/turn one, do AS. It moves him earlier in his current TA round/turn, but does nothing. All it did is use up his Immediate Swift Action within that TA round/turn. He cannot manifest TA again because he is still within a TA (only one spell/power of a given type affect a PC at a given time).

Remember, with TA, the PC (using your multiple turns within TA interpretation) is in a world of his own turns. He can go earlier in his own turns with AS, but he cannot do TA within TA.


All in all, this combo cannot be done.


The only thing AS does is allow a PC (or NPC) to act early, but it uses up a Immediate/Swift action doing so which prevents another one until after the PC's next normal turn.

As for the swift/immediate action thing, I thought it did work. you get an swift/imediate action on each turn--so he anticipatory strikes--immediate, gets another round of actions and thus a second swift/immediate action which he uses to accelerate for two rounds

AS does NOT give another round of actions. It merely allows the current round of actions to go earlier in the initiative.

AS: You take your normal action for the round at the time that you manifest this power, rather than waiting for your turn to come up in the initiative sequence.

AS then goes on to explicitly state that the manifester can use a standard and move action, or a full round action. Nowhere does it state that it resets the Swift/Immediate action.

 

[Infiniti2000]

ir, KD, y'all are indeed right. I failed my spot check.